3.3 in standard English

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3.3 in standard English

Zaphod Feeblejocks
To whoever is resposible for uploading 3.3 to the mirrors....

I can see a version that uses US regional spellings (English (US)).

Nothing in standard English though.

Will this be fixed?

In case you think I am being pedantic, it's worth remembering that the idea of 'English'
versus 'English (UK)' often seen, suggests an American-centred view of the world.  

There's English, as spoken in most Anglophone countries in a reasonably uniform way (UK,
Ireland, Australia, NZ, India, Kenya, Nigeria, Cameroon, etc), and there's the regional
variations made popular by Mr Noah Webster & co in USA.  I do accept that Webster's ideas
do make sense and are easier for people learning English - but nonetheless, they are
regional variations most commonly used in USA.

Even my Canadian friends insist their language is 'English-UK' rather than 'English-US'.

Many thanks,

ZF

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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Michael Adams-2
On Saturday 29 January 2011 06:38, Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:

> To whoever is resposible for uploading 3.3 to the mirrors....
>
> I can see a version that uses US regional spellings (English (US)).
>
> Nothing in standard English though.
>
> Will this be fixed?
>
> In case you think I am being pedantic, it's worth remembering that the idea
> of 'English' versus 'English (UK)' often seen, suggests an American-centred
> view of the world.
>
> There's English, as spoken in most Anglophone countries in a reasonably
> uniform way (UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ, India, Kenya, Nigeria, Cameroon,
> etc), and there's the regional variations made popular by Mr Noah Webster &
> co in USA.  I do accept that Webster's ideas do make sense and are easier
> for people learning English - but nonetheless, they are regional variations
> most commonly used in USA.
>
> Even my Canadian friends insist their language is 'English-UK' rather than
> 'English-US'.

That would make it sound like you were a member of a majority, wouldn't it?
Except that the USA has a larger population than the rest of us English as a
first language countries combined. So if it wasn't for the fact that not all
US citizens speak english as a first language (or even at all) and that the
second largest English speaking country in the world is China (when you count
those who do not have English as a first language), we would actually be able
to work out whether more people wrote English(GB) or English(US) (which is in
computer parlance historically called English, because, in general, the
majority of programmers are/were there). Rather muddled, isn't it? I fear
until more accurate figures are obtained nobody can claim the high ground,
either on having a clear majority, or on being first with the language. As to
the last point, read Chaucer. You could argue based on who wrote the first
dictionary, but that is just elitist, dry and crusty and gets away from the
real point of your email. So realy your "standard English" may not exist as
you percieve it[1].

The English(US) version of OpenOffice.org may not even be the first one
released as IIUC the majority of programmers are in Germany.

To download the English(GB) version of OpenOffice.org you generally have to
wait a week or so for the maintainers of that version to pack it with the
appropriate help files and dictionaries etc. Then if you are like me, you
have to add the dictionaries for your local English version anyway. I have to
add the New Zealand English and Maori dictionaries. BTW i don't speak Maori,
but many Maori words are assimilated into New Zealand English (Tui {a bird},
Waikato {a river and region} and Kaikoura {a town} are examples).

HTH

[1] http://grammar.about.com/od/grammarfaq/a/standardenglish.htm

--
Michael

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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Thomas Cameron
As a 'Canuk', I too have some problems with the English I learned in school and the English I see everyday.
For example, I spell Harbour, Favourite, etc., but I think you get the gist of what I am saying, EH? (LOL)
Thomas Cameron
Québec Canada.
On 2011-01-28, at 4:35 PM, Michael Adams wrote:

> On Saturday 29 January 2011 06:38, Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
>> To whoever is resposible for uploading 3.3 to the mirrors....
>>
>> I can see a version that uses US regional spellings (English (US)).
>>
>> Nothing in standard English though.
>>
>> Will this be fixed?
>>
>> In case you think I am being pedantic, it's worth remembering that the idea
>> of 'English' versus 'English (UK)' often seen, suggests an American-centred
>> view of the world.
>>
>> There's English, as spoken in most Anglophone countries in a reasonably
>> uniform way (UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ, India, Kenya, Nigeria, Cameroon,
>> etc), and there's the regional variations made popular by Mr Noah Webster &
>> co in USA.  I do accept that Webster's ideas do make sense and are easier
>> for people learning English - but nonetheless, they are regional variations
>> most commonly used in USA.
>>
>> Even my Canadian friends insist their language is 'English-UK' rather than
>> 'English-US'.
>
> That would make it sound like you were a member of a majority, wouldn't it?
> Except that the USA has a larger population than the rest of us English as a
> first language countries combined. So if it wasn't for the fact that not all
> US citizens speak english as a first language (or even at all) and that the
> second largest English speaking country in the world is China (when you count
> those who do not have English as a first language), we would actually be able
> to work out whether more people wrote English(GB) or English(US) (which is in
> computer parlance historically called English, because, in general, the
> majority of programmers are/were there). Rather muddled, isn't it? I fear
> until more accurate figures are obtained nobody can claim the high ground,
> either on having a clear majority, or on being first with the language. As to
> the last point, read Chaucer. You could argue based on who wrote the first
> dictionary, but that is just elitist, dry and crusty and gets away from the
> real point of your email. So realy your "standard English" may not exist as
> you percieve it[1].
>
> The English(US) version of OpenOffice.org may not even be the first one
> released as IIUC the majority of programmers are in Germany.
>
> To download the English(GB) version of OpenOffice.org you generally have to
> wait a week or so for the maintainers of that version to pack it with the
> appropriate help files and dictionaries etc. Then if you are like me, you
> have to add the dictionaries for your local English version anyway. I have to
> add the New Zealand English and Maori dictionaries. BTW i don't speak Maori,
> but many Maori words are assimilated into New Zealand English (Tui {a bird},
> Waikato {a river and region} and Kaikoura {a town} are examples).
>
> HTH
>
> [1] http://grammar.about.com/od/grammarfaq/a/standardenglish.htm
>
> --
> Michael
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Larry Gusaas-4
In reply to this post by Zaphod Feeblejocks

On 2011/01/28 11:38 AM  Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
> To whoever is resposible for uploading 3.3 to the mirrors....
>
> I can see a version that uses US regional spellings (English (US)).
>
> Nothing in standard English though.

The UK version will be available after it has passed the QA process. Not all languages are
immediately available upon the release of a new version of OOo.

> Will this be fixed?
>
> In case you think I am being pedantic, it's worth remembering that the idea of 'English'
> versus 'English (UK)' often seen, suggests an American-centred view of the world.

The US English version of OOo comes with dictionaries for use in spell-check in Canadian,
Australian, South African, UK, and US varients of English. Other dictionaries are available for
download. If it had and American centred view it would only contain the US English dictionary.

> There's English, as spoken in most Anglophone countries in a reasonably uniform way (UK,
> Ireland, Australia, NZ, India, Kenya, Nigeria, Cameroon, etc), and there's the regional
> variations made popular by Mr Noah Webster&  co in USA.

Each of those countries have variations in language from each other.

>    I do accept that Webster's ideas
> do make sense and are easier for people learning English - but nonetheless, they are
> regional variations most commonly used in USA.
>
> Even my Canadian friends insist their language is 'English-UK' rather than 'English-US'.

I use Canadian English which is not the same as UK English, or US English.

Larry
--
_________________________________
Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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Re: 3.3 in standard English

John W Kennedy-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Cameron
On Jan 28, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> As a 'Canuk', I too have some problems with the English I learned in school and the English I see everyday.
> For example, I spell Harbour, Favourite, etc., but I think you get the gist of what I am saying, EH? (LOL)

Actually, I grew up saying "Eh?" in Maine. These things aren't always as hard and fast as people wish them to be.

--
John W Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
  -- Charles Williams.  "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"




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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Larry Gusaas-4

On 2011/01/28 11:11 PM  John W Kennedy wrote:
> On Jan 28, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
>> As a 'Canuk', I too have some problems with the English I learned in school and the English I see everyday.
>> For example, I spell Harbour, Favourite, etc., but I think you get the gist of what I am saying, EH? (LOL)
> Actually, I grew up saying "Eh?" in Maine. These things aren't always as hard and fast as people wish them to be.

Growing up in Saskatchewan, I never heard "Eh?". The first I heard it was by the McKenzie Brothers.


Larry
--
_________________________________
Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Zaphod Feeblejocks
In reply to this post by Michael Adams-2
On 29 Jan 2011 at 10:35, Michael Adams wrote:

> > Even my Canadian friends insist their language is 'English-UK' rather than
> > 'English-US'.
>
> That would make it sound like you were a member of a majority, wouldn't it?
> Except that the USA has a larger population than the rest of us English as a

I'm not disputing the size of USA or their importance in the world.  Indeed, if I was learning
any version of English as a second language, I would probably learn American because (a)
there is more standardisation in spellings and (b) the world is awash with American TV and
movies.

However, I am not American and my language is not American.  I have lived with Americans
and been utterly baffled in ordinary conversation.  Likewise, I have baffled them.

My language is UK English, with appropriate Irish-isms.  I doubt if many people here call the
stream at the end of their garden a sheuch, for example.  Most other English speakers I
have worked with view their language as more akin to UK than US English, especially in
spellings.

Of course Canadians have their own variations and are right to insist it's Canadian-English,
rather than British-English (etc for NZ, Aussie, ZA, etc., variations).  The Canadians I know
are less confused by UK than by US conversation though.  Maybe I only know a small
sample of Canadians?

My issue with the non-existance of the UK English installers is simple.  I've been asked to
do a one-click installer for a school in Africa, who have specifically asked that it be in UK
English, "Because we learned English from the British, not the Americans.  We do not want
to confuse children with American spellings on the software or to re-inforce Americanisms
when we don't need to."

I'm not American.  If any distributor tells me I have a choice of American-English or no
English, they are saying to me they are not interested in my business.  I know Canadians
who feel the same.  When (for example), an interface tells me about spreadsheet 'formulas'
and not 'formulae', I think the people responsible have forgotten the user.  Splattering
Americanisms all over the place makes me feel like I am on the end of imperialist ethno-
centricity.

I know it seems pedantic, but with the efforts made to accommodate minority languages,
I'd appreciate my own being included also.

ZF

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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Joost Andrae-2
Hi,

the en-GB binaries have not yet been released by a QA team. Maybe you'd
like to contribute to the QA project and help to release them. If you
like then join the QA project at http://qa.openoffice.org and subscripbe
to the mailing list [hidden email].

If you don't mind to try the latest release candidate then just have a
look here:

http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Win_x86_install_en-GB.exe
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_x86_langpack_en-GB.tar.gz
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_x86_install-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_Sparc_install-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_MacOS_x86_langpack_en-GB.dmg
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-GB.tar.gz
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-rpm-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-GB.tar.gz
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86-64_install-rpm-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86-64_install-deb_en-GB.tar.gz

Kind regards, Joost


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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Ralph Barone

please unsubscribe


Ralph barone
[hidden email]



 

> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:49:15 +0100
> Subject: [discuss] Re: 3.3 in standard English
>
> Hi,
>
> the en-GB binaries have not yet been released by a QA team. Maybe you'd
> like to contribute to the QA project and help to release them. If you
> like then join the QA project at http://qa.openoffice.org and subscripbe
> to the mailing list [hidden email].
>
> If you don't mind to try the latest release candidate then just have a
> look here:
>
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Win_x86_install_en-GB.exe
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_x86_langpack_en-GB.tar.gz
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_x86_install-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_Sparc_install-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_MacOS_x86_langpack_en-GB.dmg
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-GB.tar.gz
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-rpm-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-GB.tar.gz
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86-64_install-rpm-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
> http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86-64_install-deb_en-GB.tar.gz
>
> Kind regards, Joost
>
>
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Re: 3.3 in standard English

mike scott-2
In reply to this post by Zaphod Feeblejocks
On 29/01/11 12:17, Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
....
> I'm not American.  If any distributor tells me I have a choice of American-English or no
> English, they are saying to me they are not interested in my business.  I know Canadians
> who feel the same.  When (for example), an interface tells me about spreadsheet 'formulas'
> and not 'formulae', I think the people responsible have forgotten the user.  Splattering
...
I totally sympathise.

But 'formula' is a particularly bad example, I regret. Fowler's Modern
English Usage (at least in my 1978 edition) is clear that either plural,
formulas or formulae, is proper usage in current 'English' English. And
indeed (on latin plurals in general), ".... when one is really in doubt
which to use, the English form should be given the preference" (page 325
in that edition).

I disagree - but Fowler is the authority, not me :-{

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, Essex, England

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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Zaphod Feeblejocks
In reply to this post by Ralph Barone
Are you asking me to leave the list?

Sorry if I accidentally offended you.

On 29 Jan 2011 at 11:03, Ralph Barone wrote:

>
> please unsubscribe
>
>
> Ralph barone
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
>  
> > To: [hidden email]
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:49:15 +0100
> > Subject: [discuss] Re: 3.3 in standard English
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > the en-GB binaries have not yet been released by a QA team. Maybe you'd
> > like to contribute to the QA project and help to release them. If you
> > like then join the QA project at http://qa.openoffice.org and subscripbe
> > to the mailing list [hidden email].
> >
> > If you don't mind to try the latest release candidate then just have a
> > look here:
> >
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Win_x86_install_en-GB.exe
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_x86_langpack_en-GB.tar.gz
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_x86_install-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Solaris_Sparc_install-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_MacOS_x86_langpack_en-GB.dmg
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-rpm_en-GB.tar.gz
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-rpm-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86_install-deb_en-GB.tar.gz
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86-64_install-rpm-wJRE_en-GB.tar.gz
> > http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/extended/3.3.0rc10/OOo_3.3.0rc10_20110118_Linux_x86-64_install-deb_en-GB.tar.gz
> >
> > Kind regards, Joost
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>      



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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Zaphod Feeblejocks
In reply to this post by mike scott-2
On 29 Jan 2011 at 16:55, Mike Scott wrote:

> On 29/01/11 12:17, Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
> ....
> > I'm not American.  If any distributor tells me I have a choice of American-English or no
> > English, they are saying to me they are not interested in my business.  I know Canadians
> > who feel the same.  When (for example), an interface tells me about spreadsheet 'formulas'
> > and not 'formulae', I think the people responsible have forgotten the user.  Splattering
> ...
> I totally sympathise.
>
> But 'formula' is a particularly bad example, I regret. Fowler's Modern
> English Usage (at least in my 1978 edition) is clear that either plural,
> formulas or formulae, is proper usage in current 'English' English. And
> indeed (on latin plurals in general), ".... when one is really in doubt
> which to use, the English form should be given the preference" (page 325
> in that edition).
>
> I disagree - but Fowler is the authority, not me :-{

OED uses "Formulae" as plural for a mathematical formula and "Formulas" for non-
mathematical formulas (scientific formulas, etc).

It's a complex issue.  I do think the American rule for plurals (put an S on the end, forget all
this Latin nonsense) is far more consistent.  

However, my issue is not really spelling - it's grammar, idioms, etc.  Sentences that the
make perfect sence to my American friends do not make sense to me and I refuse to try to
use their way of expressing myself unless I have to - simply because I am likely to get it
wrong.  I've had too many conversations with either me or them saying, "What I take from
that is....", and one of us having mis-understood something seemingly simple.

And that is why I dislike the trend in software to lump all derivitives of the language spoken
in England together or to assume that people in the UK (or Canada, NZ, SA, etc) are
wannabe Americans.

So, having had a week of translating between American and British at work, and seeing a
download link for "OOo 3.3.0 English (UK)" lead to a 404, I was understandably
disappointed.  Being told "Would American do for you instead" was annoying.  However,
apologies if I sounded off-key in earlier posts.

ZF

>
> --
> Mike Scott
> Harlow, Essex, England
>
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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Larry Gusaas-4
In reply to this post by Zaphod Feeblejocks

On 2011/01/29 11:41 AM  Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
> Are you asking me to leave the list?

No he is not. He wants to be unsubscribed from the list and is ignorant of the procedure to do
so. He seems to be unable to read the instructions at the bottom of the post he replied to.
This type of request occurs regularly.

> Sorry if I accidentally offended you.
>
> On 29 Jan 2011 at 11:03, Ralph Barone wrote:
>
>> >  
>> >  please unsubscribe
>> >  
>> >  
>> >  Ralph barone
>> >  [hidden email]
>> >  


Larry
--
_________________________________
Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - Edgard Varese



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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Barbara Duprey
In reply to this post by Ralph Barone
On 1/29/2011 10:03 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
> please unsubscribe
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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Harold Fuchs-9
In reply to this post by Zaphod Feeblejocks

"Zaphod Feeblejocks" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

> To whoever is resposible for uploading 3.3 to the mirrors....
>
> I can see a version that uses US regional spellings (English (US)).
>
> Nothing in standard English though.
>
> Will this be fixed?
>
> In case you think I am being pedantic, it's worth remembering that the
> idea of 'English'
> versus 'English (UK)' often seen, suggests an American-centred view of the
> world.
>
> There's English, as spoken in most Anglophone countries in a reasonably
> uniform way (UK,
> Ireland, Australia, NZ, India, Kenya, Nigeria, Cameroon, etc), and there's
> the regional
> variations made popular by Mr Noah Webster & co in USA.  I do accept that
> Webster's ideas
> do make sense and are easier for people learning English - but
> nonetheless, they are
> regional variations most commonly used in USA.
>
> Even my Canadian friends insist their language is 'English-UK' rather than
> 'English-US'.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> ZF

The minute you say (as you did) "... and there's the regional variations
..." you leave standard English behind and enter some world inhabited by the
bewildered. It's "there ARE the regional variations". The verb should agree
with its predicate. So both should either be singular - there is ("there's)
the regional variation - or plural - there are (there're) the regional
variations.

Please close this thread.

--
Harold Fuchs
London, England



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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Patrick Grace
Both my parents are Irish.  I was born in Leicestershire, England and
I became French by marriage.  I usually write in English
(U.K.-Les-Irish) and occasionally in French (Burgundy).  What language
would I have written in if I had been born in Hong Kong, I wonder?
Patrick Grace (Paticus Graccus)


On 30 January 2011 02:42, Harold Fuchs <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> "Zaphod Feeblejocks" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
> news:[hidden email]...
>>
>> To whoever is resposible for uploading 3.3 to the mirrors....
>>
>> I can see a version that uses US regional spellings (English (US)).
>>
>> Nothing in standard English though.
>>
>> Will this be fixed?
>>
>> In case you think I am being pedantic, it's worth remembering that the
>> idea of 'English'
>> versus 'English (UK)' often seen, suggests an American-centred view of the
>> world.
>>
>> There's English, as spoken in most Anglophone countries in a reasonably
>> uniform way (UK,
>> Ireland, Australia, NZ, India, Kenya, Nigeria, Cameroon, etc), and there's
>> the regional
>> variations made popular by Mr Noah Webster & co in USA.  I do accept that
>> Webster's ideas
>> do make sense and are easier for people learning English - but
>> nonetheless, they are
>> regional variations most commonly used in USA.
>>
>> Even my Canadian friends insist their language is 'English-UK' rather than
>> 'English-US'.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> ZF
>
> The minute you say (as you did) "... and there's the regional variations
> ..." you leave standard English behind and enter some world inhabited by the
> bewildered. It's "there ARE the regional variations". The verb should agree
> with its predicate. So both should either be singular - there is ("there's)
> the regional variation - or plural - there are (there're) the regional
> variations.
>
> Please close this thread.
>
> --
> Harold Fuchs
> London, England
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>



--
Pat Grace

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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Zaphod Feeblejocks
In reply to this post by Harold Fuchs-9
On 30 Jan 2011 at 1:42, Harold Fuchs wrote:

> The minute you say (as you did) "... and there's the regional variations
> ..." you leave standard English behind and enter some world inhabited by the
> bewildered. It's "there ARE the regional variations". The verb should agree
> with its predicate. So both should either be singular - there is ("there's)
> the regional variation - or plural - there are (there're) the regional
> variations.

A very good point!  Blame my Irish-speaking ancestors who adopted English words but
didn't always embrace the foreigners' grammar!

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Off topic, a diatribe in agreement: Re: [discuss] 3.3 in standard English

David B Teague-3
In reply to this post by Zaphod Feeblejocks
On 1/29/2011 7:17 AM, Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
> When (for example), an interface tells me about spreadsheet 'formulas'
> and not 'formulae', I think the people responsible have forgotten the user.
Off topic, a diatribe, in agreement with the position of
Zaphod and others.

The so called "Americanisms" mentioned here are not
Americanisms. They are BARBARISMS, committed by poorly
educated USians who do not care about the language.

I have an ongoing, albeit losing, war with "indexes"
(indices) "maximums" (maxima) "minimums" (minima) along with
the words you mention.

Another annoyance: I note that /America/ is more than just
the US. Too many people, here and abroad, use /America/ as a
synonym for the UNITED STATES of America. There needs to be
a word other than American for a citizen of the United
States (of America).

Little made me more angry when a student at the University
of Glasgow than the telephone response when I called the
Consulate in Glasgow: "American Consulate." It was not and
is not the "AMERICAN Consulate".

America includes Canada. America also includes Mexico, the
Central American Isthmus nations, and the South American
nations. There, English, where it is spoken, is a second
language.

But I digress.

I agree with you entirely. There is a need for less US
English centered language references in OO.o.

David Teague
a US Citizen, who is annoyed by
lazy and poorly educated US usage.

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Re: 3.3 in standard English

David B Teague-3
In reply to this post by mike scott-2
On 1/29/2011 11:55 AM, Mike Scott wrote:
> I disagree - but Fowler is the authority, not me :-{
Fowler is wrong. The correct spelling is "formulae".
DBTsr
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Re: 3.3 in standard English

Robert Funnell
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011, David B Teague wrote:

> On 1/29/2011 11:55 AM, Mike Scott wrote:
>> I disagree - but Fowler is the authority, not me :-{
> Fowler is wrong. The correct spelling is "formulae".
> DBTsr

'It is now almost my sole rule of life to clear myself of cants and
formulas, as of poisonous Nessus shirts.' - Thomas Carlyle, 1835

Though he was Scottish, not English.

- Robert (Canadian; American but not 'American')



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