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Apache OpenOffice NG

Raphael Bircher-3
Hi all

Apache OpenOffice NG stands for New Generation. I know, this thread is  
difficult. Just sit down, relax and read it. This is just a brainstorm. We  
don't talk now if it's possible or not.

What would happened if we drop the product but not the project? Drop the  
binaries and just doing source Release. The idea is to hand over the final  
products (can be a variety of products) to third party organizations  
(Companies, whatever). The Project remains open to provide a common  
codebase.

I know, this is a complete different way. At first i said: "NO, NEVER",  
but if I start thinking a bit longer I also see the big chances in.

Maybe we should say goodbye to the idea of the one big office suite who  
try to serve all the peoples needs and start to think in direction of  
smaller office tools who are customized for a User Group.

What you think about this, the tread is open for inputs, ideas and so on.

Regards Raphael

--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU

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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Damjan Jovanovic
Anyone can already develop smaller office tools for certain groups. Third
party organizations can provide their own derivatives (eg. NeoOffice,
LibreOffice already do).

I don't see what this would allow, that the current model doesn't?

Regards
Damjan

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Raphael Bircher <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Apache OpenOffice NG stands for New Generation. I know, this thread is
> difficult. Just sit down, relax and read it. This is just a brainstorm. We
> don't talk now if it's possible or not.
>
> What would happened if we drop the product but not the project? Drop the
> binaries and just doing source Release. The idea is to hand over the final
> products (can be a variety of products) to third party organizations
> (Companies, whatever). The Project remains open to provide a common
> codebase.
>
> I know, this is a complete different way. At first i said: "NO, NEVER",
> but if I start thinking a bit longer I also see the big chances in.
>
> Maybe we should say goodbye to the idea of the one big office suite who
> try to serve all the peoples needs and start to think in direction of
> smaller office tools who are customized for a User Group.
>
> What you think about this, the tread is open for inputs, ideas and so on.
>
> Regards Raphael
>
> --
> My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
>
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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Raphael Bircher-3
Hello,

> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:[hidden email]]

> Apache OpenOffice NG stands for New Generation. I know, this
> thread is  
> difficult. Just sit down, relax and read it. This is just a
> brainstorm. We  
> don't talk now if it's possible or not.
>
> What would happened if we drop the product but not the
> project? Drop the  
> binaries and just doing source Release. The idea is to hand
> over the final  
> products (can be a variety of products) to third party organizations  
> (Companies, whatever). The Project remains open to provide a common  
> codebase.
>
> I know, this is a complete different way. At first i said:
> "NO, NEVER",  
> but if I start thinking a bit longer I also see the big chances in.

Everything you propose can be done today, there is no need for a separate
decision.

Your mistake is (imho) to believe that a decision from us would automatically
increase the interest of third party organizations.

> Maybe we should say goodbye to the idea of the one big office
> suite who  
> try to serve all the peoples needs and start to think in
> direction of  
> smaller office tools who are customized for a User Group.

I do not read the word "cloud", but I am afraid that is meant.

In this case, I say: I need, even in the future, a _desktop_ office. For me this
is a question of security, because in today's reality, the cloud is only safe
until the next hacker attack.



Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Dr. Michael Stehmann-2
Am 22.04.2017 um 10:02 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
>
> In this case, I say: I need, even in the future, a _desktop_ office. For me this
> is a question of security, because in today's reality, the cloud is only safe
> until the next hacker attack.
>
"There is no cloud, just other people's computers."

But if you put your own cloud on your own computers, you can enjoy the
advantages of a cloud without facing the drawbacks.

Kind regards
Michael



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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Jörg Schmidt-2
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:[hidden email]]

> > In this case, I say: I need, even in the future, a
> _desktop_ office. For me this
> > is a question of security, because in today's reality, the
> cloud is only safe
> > until the next hacker attack.
> >
> "There is no cloud, just other people's computers."
>
> But if you put your own cloud on your own computers, you can enjoy the
> advantages of a cloud without facing the drawbacks.

Yes, I can do it, but it does not give me any advantage over a classic desktop
office.

Note: under a cloud office I understand an Office running in the browser, a normal
Desktop Office, installed in the LAN(*), is for me not a cloud office.

(*)
in the case of OO that means a "server installation" with: setup.exe /a  


Jörg


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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Dr. Michael Stehmann-2
Am 22.04.2017 um 10:46 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:

> Note: under a cloud office I understand an Office running in the browser, a normal
> Desktop Office, installed in the LAN(*), is for me not a cloud office.
>
Yes, cloud means more than a server installation.

Kind regards
Michael

P.S.: Why should I install Apache OpenOffice on a server under wine? ;-)




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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Jörg Schmidt-2
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:[hidden email]]

> P.S.: Why should I install Apache OpenOffice on a server
> under wine? ;-)

Sorry, but my technical knowledge is far better than my English and I hoped that a
concrete example would create more clarity than a linguistically imprecise
statement.


Jörg


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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Peter Kovacs
I am sorry not writing aß of Late. I lack time even to follow the list
regularly atm. :(

For good code you need to compile, build the product I mean. There is no
point in outsourcing this.

I think we are alone as long as we do not manage some fundamental reforms.

I think of:
1) ease building
2) strong generic library architecture
3) work tools to help in their projects
4) rally the Open office community behind an organization that develops the
application

I know this is very complex because this strategy heads in different
directions and differs a lot from current thinking. Also it is imho
difficult to achieve since our resources are limited. In skill and in
number.

I hope to have some more time again for open office in near future. Then I
will let you know.

All the best
Peter

Jörg Schmidt <[hidden email]> schrieb am So., 23. Apr. 2017, 11:14:

> > From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:[hidden email]]
>
> > P.S.: Why should I install Apache OpenOffice on a server
> > under wine? ;-)
>
> Sorry, but my technical knowledge is far better than my English and I
> hoped that a
> concrete example would create more clarity than a linguistically imprecise
> statement.
>
>
> Jörg
>
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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> --

Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre Antwort
wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google Algorythmen zwecks
werbeanaöysen gescannt. Es ist derzeit nicht auszuschließen das ihre
Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter geprüft wird. Durch
kommunikation mit diesen Account stimmen Sie zu das ihre Mail, ihre
Kontaktdaten und die Termine die Sie mit mir vereinbaren online zu Google
konditionen in der Googlecloud gespeichert wird. Sollten sie dies nicht
wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um z.B. alternativen zu
verhandeln.
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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Dave Fisher
Hi - continuing the top posting.

I think what Raphael is referring to is if the project should follow a pattern similar to Apache Subversion where only source code and no binary packages are provided.

If you look at https://subversion.apache.org/packages.html you will see what is meant. I am not sure how that would work for us. We already have a few “packagers”, but then also subversion is very simple compared to OpenOffice. The governance on deciding what is allowed on a packagers page might exceed the effort in maintaining viable Windows, Mac and Ubuntu/Linux builds. This is really the crux of “ease building”. (1)

Alternatively finding a way for a hypothetical organization to develop the application including security issues. The question would be who is that organization and would they be doing Apache OpenOffice or ${OfficeSuite} powered by Apache OpenOffice?

Regards,
Dave

> On May 1, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am sorry not writing aß of Late. I lack time even to follow the list
> regularly atm. :(
>
> For good code you need to compile, build the product I mean. There is no
> point in outsourcing this.
>
> I think we are alone as long as we do not manage some fundamental reforms.
>
> I think of:
> 1) ease building
> 2) strong generic library architecture
> 3) work tools to help in their projects
> 4) rally the Open office community behind an organization that develops the
> application
>
> I know this is very complex because this strategy heads in different
> directions and differs a lot from current thinking. Also it is imho
> difficult to achieve since our resources are limited. In skill and in
> number.
>
> I hope to have some more time again for open office in near future. Then I
> will let you know.
>
> All the best
> Peter
>
> Jörg Schmidt <[hidden email]> schrieb am So., 23. Apr. 2017, 11:14:
>
>>> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>
>>> P.S.: Why should I install Apache OpenOffice on a server
>>> under wine? ;-)
>>
>> Sorry, but my technical knowledge is far better than my English and I
>> hoped that a
>> concrete example would create more clarity than a linguistically imprecise
>> statement.
>>
>>
>> Jörg
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>> --
>
> Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre Antwort
> wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google Algorythmen zwecks
> werbeanaöysen gescannt. Es ist derzeit nicht auszuschließen das ihre
> Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter geprüft wird. Durch
> kommunikation mit diesen Account stimmen Sie zu das ihre Mail, ihre
> Kontaktdaten und die Termine die Sie mit mir vereinbaren online zu Google
> konditionen in der Googlecloud gespeichert wird. Sollten sie dies nicht
> wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um z.B. alternativen zu
> verhandeln.


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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Jim Jagielski
The issue that I see is that our end-user community is not the same
as, for example, subversion... I would hazard that the vast majority
of AOO users have no idea what "open source" means and the distinction
between being a source-only project and "source-only-but-we-also-provide-
community-builds" would be lost on them...

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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Roberto Galoppini-2
Exactly.
It seems just a distraction to me, unless I've missed hidden or untold
bonus points.

R

2017-05-02 13:11 GMT+02:00 Jim Jagielski <[hidden email]>:

> The issue that I see is that our end-user community is not the same
> as, for example, subversion... I would hazard that the vast majority
> of AOO users have no idea what "open source" means and the distinction
> between being a source-only project and "source-only-but-we-also-provide-
> community-builds" would be lost on them...
>
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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Jim Jagielski

> From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:[hidden email]]

> The issue that I see is that our end-user community is not the same
> as, for example, subversion... I would hazard that the vast majority
> of AOO users have no idea what "open source" means and the distinction
> between being a source-only project and
> "source-only-but-we-also-provide-
> community-builds" would be lost on them...

+1

Jorg


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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Patricia Shanahan
On 5/2/2017 8:42 AM, Jorg Schmidt wrote:

>
>> From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:[hidden email]]
>
>> The issue that I see is that our end-user community is not the same
>> as, for example, subversion... I would hazard that the vast majority
>> of AOO users have no idea what "open source" means and the distinction
>> between being a source-only project and
>> "source-only-but-we-also-provide-
>> community-builds" would be lost on them...
>
> +1
>
> Jorg

Currently, if someone finds advertising or malware in their AOO
installation we can tell them to download AOO only through our download
link. What would we do in that situation if we did not provide
downloadable binaries?

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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

Joost Andrae-2
In reply to this post by Dave Fisher
Am 02.05.2017 um 13:11 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
> The issue that I see is that our end-user community is not the same
> as, for example, subversion... I would hazard that the vast majority
> of AOO users have no idea what "open source" means and the distinction
> between being a source-only project and "source-only-but-we-also-provide-
> community-builds" would be lost on them...
>

+1

Kind regards, Joost


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