AutoInput disabled at default

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AutoInput disabled at default

Peter Kovacs-3
Hello all,


I would like to change a setting and disable autoInput at default.

There are Complains on Bugzilla on other Issues,'and I recieved a
copmplained on chat.

It is nothing that hurts, since user can switch it back on again.

And we can think on better ways in the future. I hope it is something
easy to change so I propose this.


Is there opposition?


All the best

Peter


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[calc] Re: AutoInput disabled at default

Peter Kovacs-3
sorry we speak of Calc.

Am 23.05.20 um 18:43 schrieb Peter Kovacs:

> Hello all,
>
>
> I would like to change a setting and disable autoInput at default.
>
> There are Complains on Bugzilla on other Issues,'and I recieved a
> copmplained on chat.
>
> It is nothing that hurts, since user can switch it back on again.
>
> And we can think on better ways in the future. I hope it is something
> easy to change so I propose this.
>
>
> Is there opposition?
>
>
> All the best
>
> Peter
>

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Re: [calc] Re: AutoInput disabled at default

Pedro Lino-3

> On May 23, 2020 5:43 PM Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  
> sorry we speak of Calc.
>
> Am 23.05.20 um 18:43 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
> > Hello all,
> >
> >
> > I would like to change a setting and disable autoInput at default.
> >
> > There are Complains on Bugzilla on other Issues,'and I recieved a
> > copmplained on chat.

I find this odd. This is a quite useful feature and it is ON by default in all other spreadsheet software.

The fact that some people (how many?) complain doesn't mean a default that has been used for years (and is useful) should be changed...

> >
> > It is nothing that hurts, since user can switch it back on again.

The logic goes the same way for people who want it off...

> > And we can think on better ways in the future. I hope it is something
> > easy to change so I propose this.
> >
> >
> > Is there opposition?

As a daily user of Calc, I think it does not make sense to change this de facto standard behaviour...

Regards,
Pedro

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Re: [calc] Re: AutoInput disabled at default

Marcus (OOo)
Am 23.05.20 um 19:01 schrieb Pedro Lino:

>> On May 23, 2020 5:43 PM Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>  
>> sorry we speak of Calc.
>>
>> Am 23.05.20 um 18:43 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
>>>
>>> I would like to change a setting and disable autoInput at default.
>>>
>>> There are Complains on Bugzilla on other Issues,'and I recieved a
>>> copmplained on chat.
>
> I find this odd. This is a quite useful feature and it is ON by default in all other spreadsheet software.
>
> The fact that some people (how many?) complain doesn't mean a default that has been used for years (and is useful) should be changed...
>
>>>
>>> It is nothing that hurts, since user can switch it back on again.
>
> The logic goes the same way for people who want it off...
>
>>> And we can think on better ways in the future. I hope it is something
>>> easy to change so I propose this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there opposition?
>
> As a daily user of Calc, I think it does not make sense to change this de facto standard behaviour...

+1
Before doing a change, we should think twice and take also into account
what the opposite means.

In this case - even when there would be a dozen complains - it is really
still a minority.

Marcus


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Re: [calc] Re: AutoInput disabled at default

Peter Kovacs-3
Am 23.05.20 um 21:24 schrieb Marcus:

> Am 23.05.20 um 19:01 schrieb Pedro Lino:
>>> On May 23, 2020 5:43 PM Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>   sorry we speak of Calc.
>>>
>>> Am 23.05.20 um 18:43 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
>>>>
>>>> I would like to change a setting and disable autoInput at default.
>>>>
>>>> There are Complains on Bugzilla on other Issues,'and I recieved a
>>>> copmplained on chat.
>>
>> I find this odd. This is a quite useful feature and it is ON by
>> default in all other spreadsheet software.
>>
>> The fact that some people (how many?) complain doesn't mean a default
>> that has been used for years (and is useful) should be changed...
>>
>>>>
>>>> It is nothing that hurts, since user can switch it back on again.
>>
>> The logic goes the same way for people who want it off...
>>
>>>> And we can think on better ways in the future. I hope it is something
>>>> easy to change so I propose this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there opposition?
>>
>> As a daily user of Calc, I think it does not make sense to change
>> this de facto standard behaviour...
>
> +1
> Before doing a change, we should think twice and take also into
> account what the opposite means.
>
> In this case - even when there would be a dozen complains - it is
> really still a minority.

yes, I am not quick in changing anything.

1) There is no way that you can confirm the entry without accepting the
autoInput. So you quickly make errors as unexperienced user.

So if you do not want to accept the autoinput suggestion you have to
press delete. Which requires, to look on the monitor and not on  the
keyboard. Simple Users are not skilled like this.

2) Excel does not offer AutoInput that fast as OpenOffice does. And we
have a Bug that isd confirmed that AutoInput should not work on numbers.

3) We have another Bug that complains that the Autoinput can change
small letters to Capletters. I could repeat it with Super and super.

So the Suggestion was to deactivate the default until we have fixed it.
The Bugs exist quite for some time now. But I wanted to initiate the
discussion, and the thought on it.


Probably it is smart to work with the suggestion list too. So popping
the suggestion list and filter then the list with the entry. If you
press enter you accept the suggestion if you press down button you
accept the cell entry.



So we have 3 accepted Bugs that we will maybe not solve fast. This gives
a reasoning for switching AutoInput off untill it is fixed.

But still I want to ask for Feetback from the Community. I do not know
how wide we need to set the concent for this.






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RE: [calc] Re: AutoInput disabled at default

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Marcus (OOo)
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 9:24 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [calc] Re: AutoInput disabled at default
>
> Am 23.05.20 um 19:01 schrieb Pedro Lino:
> >> On May 23, 2020 5:43 PM Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>  
> >> sorry we speak of Calc.
> >>
> >> Am 23.05.20 um 18:43 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
> >>>
> >>> I would like to change a setting and disable autoInput at default.
> >>>
> >>> There are Complains on Bugzilla on other Issues,'and I recieved a
> >>> copmplained on chat.
> >
> > I find this odd. This is a quite useful feature and it is
> ON by default in all other spreadsheet software.
> >
> > The fact that some people (how many?) complain doesn't mean
> a default that has been used for years (and is useful) should
> be changed...
> >
> >>>
> >>> It is nothing that hurts, since user can switch it back on again.
> >
> > The logic goes the same way for people who want it off...
> >
> >>> And we can think on better ways in the future. I hope it
> is something
> >>> easy to change so I propose this.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Is there opposition?
> >
> > As a daily user of Calc, I think it does not make sense to
> change this de facto standard behaviour...
>
> +1
> Before doing a change, we should think twice and take also
> into account
> what the opposite means.
>
> In this case - even when there would be a dozen complains -
> it is really
> still a minority.

+1

I think there are some principles of operation in OO which should either be implemented consistently (as it is so far) or replaced by new, better principles. There should not be any half measures.

One of these principles is:
if there is a setting that allows to switch a function on and off, the default state should always be the switched on function, BECAUSE this ensures that the user is automatically informed about the function.


greetings,
Jörg


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Re: [calc] Re: AutoInput disabled at default

Pedro Lino-3
In reply to this post by Peter Kovacs-3

> On May 24, 2020 3:13 AM Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1) There is no way that you can confirm the entry without accepting the
> autoInput. So you quickly make errors as unexperienced user.

As long as you keep typing you don't need to delete anything, unless your new string is a subset of a previous string. That is possibly a corner case.
Can you post the Bugzilla link?
 
> 2) Excel does not offer AutoInput that fast as OpenOffice does. And we
> have a Bug that isd confirmed that AutoInput should not work on numbers.

That is not correct. Just tested with Excel 2016. It is exactly the same.
I can't replicate the problem with numbers (at least under Windows 7 x64). Can you post the Bugzilla link?
 
> 3) We have another Bug that complains that the Autoinput can change
> small letters to Capletters. I could repeat it with Super and super.

That is a separate issue related to Autocorrect. Autoinput only replicates previous strings

> Probably it is smart to work with the suggestion list too. So popping
> the suggestion list and filter then the list with the entry. If you
> press enter you accept the suggestion if you press down button you
> accept the cell entry.

That sounds like a useful solution. Does anyone have the knowledge and time to code that?

> So we have 3 accepted Bugs that we will maybe not solve fast. This gives
> a reasoning for switching AutoInput off untill it is fixed.

As I mentioned before this is also the default behaviour in the other spreadsheets. Turning off the default (to solve 2 possible smaller issues) will make more users unhappy.

Regards,
Pedro

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[calc] AutoInput Bugs and possible (rough) Use cases (was: AutoInput disabled at default)

Peter Kovacs-3
I am fine if you have Issues with switching the AutoInput off. But then
we should talk on a proper solution.

Independent of the actual code situation. Maybe if we describe clear
where OpenOffice should move, create work packages, we can handle changes.

So I would like to try this on this approach.


Am 24.05.20 um 17:03 schrieb Pedro Lino:
>> On May 24, 2020 3:13 AM Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 1) There is no way that you can confirm the entry without accepting the
>> autoInput. So you quickly make errors as unexperienced user.
> As long as you keep typing you don't need to delete anything, unless your new string is a subset of a previous string. That is possibly a corner case.
> Can you post the Bugzilla link?
This is a possible pro argument, in favour of the argument.
>  
>> 2) Excel does not offer AutoInput that fast as OpenOffice does. And we
>> have a Bug that isd confirmed that AutoInput should not work on numbers.
> That is not correct. Just tested with Excel 2016. It is exactly the same.
> I can't replicate the problem with numbers (at least under Windows 7 x64). Can you post the Bugzilla link?
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=55652
>  
>> 3) We have another Bug that complains that the Autoinput can change
>> small letters to Capletters. I could repeat it with Super and super.
> That is a separate issue related to Autocorrect. Autoinput only replicates previous strings

Bugzilla:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=1342

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=105319

Another One:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=73036


>
>> Probably it is smart to work with the suggestion list too. So popping
>> the suggestion list and filter then the list with the entry. If you
>> press enter you accept the suggestion if you press down button you
>> accept the cell entry.
> That sounds like a useful solution. Does anyone have the knowledge and time to code that?

In the past we had this you had to confirm with tap. Bugzillalink, that
complains it does not lead to cell travel:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=18748

Complaint to use tab as confirmation:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=81213

>
>> So we have 3 accepted Bugs that we will maybe not solve fast. This gives
>> a reasoning for switching AutoInput off untill it is fixed.
> As I mentioned before this is also the default behaviour in the other spreadsheets. Turning off the default (to solve 2 possible smaller issues) will make more users unhappy.

This Bug concerns more about AutoComplete:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=34417

but comment 6 is on AutoInput


Another complains on AutoInput / Complete for makeing it easier to
switch it off:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=52054


And here is one that Complains that the scan range is not great enough:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=89016

And this one complains over what should be offered:

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=126113


Maybe following Ideas, roughly noted are the direction we should think?

(number is for easier reference)

1) the AutoInput selects the closest entry from the selection List

2) we pop the selection List at typing and mark the AutoSelect

3) We add a key that confirms an entry without accepting AutoInput

4) We show the Keys as Overlays at the options selected

5) we add the switch to switch AutoIntend off in the Popup

6) we move the Popup into the sidebar.


Other Ideas are welcome.  I also tried to divide to move the steps into
smaller pieces.

 From technical perspective it will be that more steps are necessary.
But I need to do a code analysis for that.

And I would like to know the User View first.


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