Quantcast

Bugzilla

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
49 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Bugzilla

Peter Kovacs
Hi,

Maybe this has been discussed already.
But how about setting up some volunteer process from support request to bug
report.

Instead of having people write wildly in our tech tracker we organize or
search the forum for bugs.
I think it might lead to more satisfaction for every one if we setup a
"support" process.
Maybe we can setup some tools to make the transition from a support thread
into a bug really easy for a supporter who is a while with us

I don't know I feel like we close 3 support requst for 1 issue. And I
wonder if we can setup a better strategy.

It is a general idea. Nothing that we can nor should do quickly and hasty.

What's your thought on this?

All the best
Peter
--

Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre Antwort
wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google Algorythmen zwecks
werbeanaöysen gescannt. Es ist derzeit nicht auszuschließen das ihre
Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter geprüft wird. Durch
kommunikation mit diesen Account stimmen Sie zu das ihre Mail, ihre
Kontaktdaten und die Termine die Sie mit mir vereinbaren online zu Google
konditionen in der Googlecloud gespeichert wird. Sollten sie dies nicht
wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um z.B. alternativen zu
verhandeln.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Alex Suk
IMHO good idea.
Our suite should have a "Report a Bug" in Help menu under "About
OpenOffice".
The average user shouldn't reach a cumbersome platform like Bugzilla to
report a bug.


On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Maybe this has been discussed already.
> But how about setting up some volunteer process from support request to bug
> report.
>
> Instead of having people write wildly in our tech tracker we organize or
> search the forum for bugs.
> I think it might lead to more satisfaction for every one if we setup a
> "support" process.
> Maybe we can setup some tools to make the transition from a support thread
> into a bug really easy for a supporter who is a while with us
>
> I don't know I feel like we close 3 support requst for 1 issue. And I
> wonder if we can setup a better strategy.
>
> It is a general idea. Nothing that we can nor should do quickly and hasty.
>
> What's your thought on this?
>
> All the best
> Peter
> --
>
> Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre Antwort
> wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google Algorythmen zwecks
> werbeanaöysen gescannt. Es ist derzeit nicht auszuschließen das ihre
> Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter geprüft wird. Durch
> kommunikation mit diesen Account stimmen Sie zu das ihre Mail, ihre
> Kontaktdaten und die Termine die Sie mit mir vereinbaren online zu Google
> konditionen in der Googlecloud gespeichert wird. Sollten sie dies nicht
> wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um z.B. alternativen zu
> verhandeln.
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Peter Kovacs
Hello,

> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:[hidden email]]

> Maybe this has been discussed already.
> But how about setting up some volunteer process from support
> request to bug
> report.
>
> Instead of having people write wildly in our tech tracker we
> organize or
> search the forum for bugs.
> I think it might lead to more satisfaction for every one if we setup a
> "support" process.
> Maybe we can setup some tools to make the transition from a
> support thread
> into a bug really easy for a supporter who is a while with us
>
> I don't know I feel like we close 3 support requst for 1 issue. And I
> wonder if we can setup a better strategy.
>
> It is a general idea. Nothing that we can nor should do
> quickly and hasty.
>
> What's your thought on this?

a good idea

a good idea

But I think it is essential that we then also eliminate bugs concretely.
Too often, we have the users promised, if they report any errors we will take care of it. Unfortunately, the users were always disappointed, already at OpenOffice.org was so.


greetings,
Jörg


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Marcus (OOo)
Am 19.05.2017 um 19:52 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:

>> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:[hidden email]]
>
>> Maybe this has been discussed already.
>> But how about setting up some volunteer process from support
>> request to bug
>> report.
>>
>> Instead of having people write wildly in our tech tracker we
>> organize or
>> search the forum for bugs.
>> I think it might lead to more satisfaction for every one if we setup a
>> "support" process.
>> Maybe we can setup some tools to make the transition from a
>> support thread
>> into a bug really easy for a supporter who is a while with us
>>
>> I don't know I feel like we close 3 support requst for 1 issue. And I
>> wonder if we can setup a better strategy.
>>
>> It is a general idea. Nothing that we can nor should do
>> quickly and hasty.
>>
>> What's your thought on this?
>
> a good idea
>
> a good idea
>
> But I think it is essential that we then also eliminate bugs concretely.
> Too often, we have the users promised, if they report any errors we will take care of it. Unfortunately, the users were always disappointed, already at OpenOffice.org was so.

absolutely, we need volunteers that would then work on these bug
reports. Assumed they *are* valid bugs and not "how can I do this and
that" questions. ;-)

@esh1907:
Are you ready to actually help here?

Marcus

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Jörg Schmidt-2
Hello,

> From: Marcus [mailto:[hidden email]]

> absolutely, we need volunteers that would then work on these bug
> reports. Assumed they *are* valid bugs and not "how can I do this and
> that" questions. ;-)

yes, right, but that's not what I mean.

I mean we need developers who fix the bugs. And there are two problems:

(a)
We do not have enough developers (ok, we have to see what the future brings)

(b)
The existing developers work voluntarily and do what they want - how do we get them to fix _specific_ bugs?
Please understand what I mean: there are issues (respectively bug reports) that are important for the users, but not interesting for the developers. How do we motivate developers to work on _these_ issues?



greetings,
Jörg


btw:
A spontaneous suggestion for (b)

We could put 50 issues to vote for each release of OO separately and fix the 10 which get the most votes from users.
By this I do not mean to fix only 10 bugs per release, but the developer's willingness to fix 10 specific bugs, which interest the users, in addition to fixed, no matter whether the developers keep these bugs important.


Such an approach would increase user satisfaction ... and perhaps there will be another chance for the future:

Interested developers can (externally) create a kind of OpenOffice-crowdfunding - an online overview with issues and for each issue a certain donation sum - if the users donate this sum, the issue is immediately fixed.
This is a bit similar to Raphael's suggestion, but it is very concrete, concrete money for the removal of concrete bugs.
This also means (or can olso mean) small donations for small bugs, for example, 20 euros for removing an incorrect label on a button.




---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Marcus (OOo)
Am 20.05.2017 um 06:23 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
>> From: Marcus [mailto:[hidden email]]
>
>> absolutely, we need volunteers that would then work on these bug
>> reports. Assumed they *are* valid bugs and not "how can I do this and
>> that" questions. ;-)
>
> yes, right, but that's not what I mean.

maybe, but I was talking about more than just developers. Sure, we need
more but we need also man-power to work on the additional reports.
Currently we have a large number of them open and it won't get less in
the future when the proposal comes true. ;-)

> I mean we need developers who fix the bugs. And there are two problems:
>
> (a)
> We do not have enough developers (ok, we have to see what the future brings)
>
> (b)
> The existing developers work voluntarily and do what they want - how do we get them to fix _specific_ bugs?
> Please understand what I mean: there are issues (respectively bug reports) that are important for the users, but not interesting for the developers. How do we motivate developers to work on _these_ issues?

In project of volunteers we haven't hard arguments to say what one "has"
to do (like salary, promotion, more things that work well in the private
economy business).

But in general, I would also expect that there is a base of
self-motivation and an eye for the important things.

> btw:
> A spontaneous suggestion for (b)
>
> We could put 50 issues to vote for each release of OO separately and fix the 10 which get the most votes from users.
> By this I do not mean to fix only 10 bugs per release, but the developer's willingness to fix 10 specific bugs, which interest the users, in addition to fixed, no matter whether the developers keep these bugs important.

The votes can be a good start. To generate a list of intersting and
valuable (for the users) things to fix or implement.

Marcus


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Peter Kovacs-2
Our best recruitment base is our user base. The more we use them the tighter the link between user and developer gets, the more probable it is we get people.
Community feeling is a strong motivator for doing the right thing.

And people we have, we lack imho skill. And this we need to build. We need to open ways into open office development. Set starting points with view little knowledge and need to slowly guide the volunteers to the deeper end of our projects.

Currently we don't have roads like I described above, we only have a fast and frightening jungle.

Getting users to evaluate what is a bug and what is not would be in my eyes a huge step forward.
Of course the next step would be solving them. But for that we can vote, measure or find other ways to promote them

Maybe slicing them up in micro jobs would work for some.
Setting up a bazaar another.

I would like to take one step after another.
And only do things we think that they work with people we have.
Because I do believe in that we need to do things in order that people join.

All the best
Peter



Am 20. Mai 2017 10:14:11 MESZ schrieb Marcus <[hidden email]>:

>Am 20.05.2017 um 06:23 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
>>> From: Marcus [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>
>>> absolutely, we need volunteers that would then work on these bug
>>> reports. Assumed they *are* valid bugs and not "how can I do this
>and
>>> that" questions. ;-)
>>
>> yes, right, but that's not what I mean.
>
>maybe, but I was talking about more than just developers. Sure, we need
>
>more but we need also man-power to work on the additional reports.
>Currently we have a large number of them open and it won't get less in
>the future when the proposal comes true. ;-)
>
>> I mean we need developers who fix the bugs. And there are two
>problems:
>>
>> (a)
>> We do not have enough developers (ok, we have to see what the future
>brings)
>>
>> (b)
>> The existing developers work voluntarily and do what they want - how
>do we get them to fix _specific_ bugs?
>> Please understand what I mean: there are issues (respectively bug
>reports) that are important for the users, but not interesting for the
>developers. How do we motivate developers to work on _these_ issues?
>
>In project of volunteers we haven't hard arguments to say what one
>"has"
>to do (like salary, promotion, more things that work well in the
>private
>economy business).
>
>But in general, I would also expect that there is a base of
>self-motivation and an eye for the important things.
>
>> btw:
>> A spontaneous suggestion for (b)
>>
>> We could put 50 issues to vote for each release of OO separately and
>fix the 10 which get the most votes from users.
>> By this I do not mean to fix only 10 bugs per release, but the
>developer's willingness to fix 10 specific bugs, which interest the
>users, in addition to fixed, no matter whether the developers keep
>these bugs important.
>
>The votes can be a good start. To generate a list of intersting and
>valuable (for the users) things to fix or implement.
>
>Marcus
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Alex Suk
In reply to this post by Marcus (OOo)
I can give it a try (please bear in mind I read here out of curiosity, I'm
not a developer).

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:


> @esh1907:
> Are you ready to actually help here?
>
> Marcus
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Hagar Delest-2
In reply to this post by Jörg Schmidt-2
Le 20/05/2017 à 06:23, Jörg Schmidt a écrit :
> (a)
> We do not have enough developers (ok, we have to see what the future brings)
Well, that's the key point I guess.

> (b)
> The existing developers work voluntarily and do what they want - how do we get them to fix _specific_ bugs?
> Please understand what I mean: there are issues (respectively bug reports) that are important for the users, but not interesting for the developers. How do we motivate developers to work on _these_ issues?
>
> [...]
>
> We could put 50 issues to vote for each release of OO separately and fix the 10 which get the most votes from users.
> By this I do not mean to fix only 10 bugs per release, but the developer's willingness to fix 10 specific bugs, which interest the users, in addition to fixed, no matter whether the developers keep these bugs important.
Who would cast a vote? Users? I doubt they would engage again in such process. They already can vote for bugs. Some have hundreds of votes and nothing is done. What "trust" they could have in a new list to vote on? Or it should at least be a list of bugs acknowledged to be solvable with the limited resources still at hand.

For the record, in the forum, we tag all the topics that deals with a reported issue, it's easy to spot them, they have the [Issue] tag in the topic title and the red flame as icon, see this query: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/search.php?keywords=Issue&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

They key point is IMHO the motivation from free resources (not very coordinated). We cannot force people to work on specific bugs. What is at stake for devs? Fame? Pair recognition? Drilling by improving something big (AOO) in the meantime?
Users point of view, I see 2 key bugs that are too frequent in the users forum:
- Files reduced to ### (may require core code change linked to the save process)
- Dictionary lost (resetting the profile is a mere workaround). The bug was closed but I doubt the fix was really one since we still see this very often.

Hagar


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Hagar Delest-2
In reply to this post by Alex Suk
Le 19/05/2017 à 13:04, esh1907 a écrit :
> IMHO good idea.
> Our suite should have a "Report a Bug" in Help menu under "About
> OpenOffice".
I don't think such option would be first very visible and second very used.

> The average user shouldn't reach a cumbersome platform like Bugzilla to
> report a bug.
Perhaps the UI could be simplified but on the other hand, it helps to precisely narrow the code involved. And even if the report is not well filled-in, volunteers afterward can add details.

For the record, there is a tutorial on the forum: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=13490

Hagar

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Hagar Delest-2
In reply to this post by Peter Kovacs-2
Le 20/05/2017 à 12:10, Peter Kovacs a écrit :
> Our best recruitment base is our user base. The more we use them the tighter the link between user and developer gets, the more probable it is we get people.
> Community feeling is a strong motivator for doing the right thing.
Well, remember that the user base of applications like AOO is not the same as for other more geek-oriented application in OpenSource field. We face mostly basic users who wants things done at no cost and with equivalent features to MS Office ones for example. They don't have any knowledge nor will to engage very far.
According to what we see in the forum, it's rather difficult to even make them file a bug report.

> And people we have, we lack imho skill. And this we need to build. We need to open ways into open office development. Set starting points with view little knowledge and need to slowly guide the volunteers to the deeper end of our projects.
>
> Currently we don't have roads like I described above, we only have a fast and frightening jungle.
Personally, I've very little knowledge of Basic macros (I sometimes help/improve macros in the forum) and I'm a fan of AOO but doing code (I mean for development) is not in my intention at all, that's too huge a step.
So, yes, quite a frightening jungle.
Let's face it: LibO seems to be doing better to get devs (that's how I see it from the outside, I don't know how true it is in reality). So what is the AOO plan exactly? I guess that committers want to invest their time in a project that has a future so that their own work can last in that project.
Should AOO be focused on stability and robustness (and less on new features)? Or should it try to keep up with LibO (at least by implementing features not that hard to code and are considered must have in LibO)?...

> Getting users to evaluate what is a bug and what is not would be in my eyes a huge step forward.
This is something we do in the forum. We help them investigate and we urge them to file a report when we can confirm there is indeed a bug (some forum volunteers even file the bug themselves when the user is not willing).

> Of course the next step would be solving them. But for that we can vote, measure or find other ways to promote them
As said in my other message, votes are cast in bugzilla. However, in the forum we did see a clear trend: in the past, users bothered to subscribe bugzilla to vote. They don't anymore.  They clearly switch to something else (be it LibO or MS Office).

> Maybe slicing them up in micro jobs would work for some.
> Setting up a bazaar another.
>
> I would like to take one step after another.
> And only do things we think that they work with people we have.
> Because I do believe in that we need to do things in order that people join.
For sure.
What people do see is that there is quite few development and little bug solving. It does not help to restore trust in the project.
But again, look at this list: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
I raised this issue several times on this list and still nothing. Think of how users talk about AOO after having lost files that way.
I do know that it is not an easy one but it is the kind of bug that definitively damages AOO reputation. Finding the root cause and fixing it (or changing the save process to avoid it) would be enough to release a new major version. That would send a clear message that the community listen to the users.
For the record, I don't have any skills to help devs. However, we spent some time with forum volunteers trying to find a hint, but nothing interesting so far.

> All the best
> Peter
+1.
Hagar

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Alex Suk
Maybe we should try to locate and convince people who used to work during
Star and Sun Microsystems to rejoin the project?
Perhaps instead of votes users can offer monetary compensation for solving
bugs (many users offering a tiny sum each can result in a reasonable
incentive)?
What about merging in developers from other projects like Gnumeric or
AbiWord?
For sure we should strive to be unique. No point in having two LibO...

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 4:11 PM, Hagar Delest <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Le 20/05/2017 à 12:10, Peter Kovacs a écrit :
>
>> Our best recruitment base is our user base. The more we use them the
>> tighter the link between user and developer gets, the more probable it is
>> we get people.
>> Community feeling is a strong motivator for doing the right thing.
>>
> Well, remember that the user base of applications like AOO is not the same
> as for other more geek-oriented application in OpenSource field. We face
> mostly basic users who wants things done at no cost and with equivalent
> features to MS Office ones for example. They don't have any knowledge nor
> will to engage very far.
> According to what we see in the forum, it's rather difficult to even make
> them file a bug report.
>
> And people we have, we lack imho skill. And this we need to build. We need
>> to open ways into open office development. Set starting points with view
>> little knowledge and need to slowly guide the volunteers to the deeper end
>> of our projects.
>>
>> Currently we don't have roads like I described above, we only have a fast
>> and frightening jungle.
>>
> Personally, I've very little knowledge of Basic macros (I sometimes
> help/improve macros in the forum) and I'm a fan of AOO but doing code (I
> mean for development) is not in my intention at all, that's too huge a step.
> So, yes, quite a frightening jungle.
> Let's face it: LibO seems to be doing better to get devs (that's how I see
> it from the outside, I don't know how true it is in reality). So what is
> the AOO plan exactly? I guess that committers want to invest their time in
> a project that has a future so that their own work can last in that project.
> Should AOO be focused on stability and robustness (and less on new
> features)? Or should it try to keep up with LibO (at least by implementing
> features not that hard to code and are considered must have in LibO)?...
>
> Getting users to evaluate what is a bug and what is not would be in my
>> eyes a huge step forward.
>>
> This is something we do in the forum. We help them investigate and we urge
> them to file a report when we can confirm there is indeed a bug (some forum
> volunteers even file the bug themselves when the user is not willing).
>
> Of course the next step would be solving them. But for that we can vote,
>> measure or find other ways to promote them
>>
> As said in my other message, votes are cast in bugzilla. However, in the
> forum we did see a clear trend: in the past, users bothered to subscribe
> bugzilla to vote. They don't anymore.  They clearly switch to something
> else (be it LibO or MS Office).
>
> Maybe slicing them up in micro jobs would work for some.
>> Setting up a bazaar another.
>>
>> I would like to take one step after another.
>> And only do things we think that they work with people we have.
>> Because I do believe in that we need to do things in order that people
>> join.
>>
> For sure.
> What people do see is that there is quite few development and little bug
> solving. It does not help to restore trust in the project.
> But again, look at this list: https://forum.openoffice.org/e
> n/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
> I raised this issue several times on this list and still nothing. Think of
> how users talk about AOO after having lost files that way.
> I do know that it is not an easy one but it is the kind of bug that
> definitively damages AOO reputation. Finding the root cause and fixing it
> (or changing the save process to avoid it) would be enough to release a new
> major version. That would send a clear message that the community listen to
> the users.
> For the record, I don't have any skills to help devs. However, we spent
> some time with forum volunteers trying to find a hint, but nothing
> interesting so far.
>
> All the best
>> Peter
>>
> +1.
> Hagar
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Patricia Shanahan
On 5/20/2017 7:32 AM, esh1907 wrote:
> Maybe we should try to locate and convince people who used to work during
> Star and Sun Microsystems to rejoin the project?

If you can see a way to make this happen, it would be very helpful. Even
having someone familiar with the source code available as a consultant
would help.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Alex Suk
About the locate (from the wayback machine):
https://web.archive.org/web/20040610062016/http://projects.openoffice.org:80/accepted.html

About the convince:
IMHO a personal meeting with a German volunteer is best.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Patricia Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:


> If you can see a way to make this happen, it would be very helpful. Even
> having someone familiar with the source code available as a consultant
> would help.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Raphael Bircher-3
In reply to this post by Alex Suk
Hi all

Am .05.2017, 16:32 Uhr, schrieb esh1907 <[hidden email]>:

> Maybe we should try to locate and convince people who used to work during
> Star and Sun Microsystems to rejoin the project?

I think this is the wrong way to go. We can't get the good old time back.  
What we need is fresh business blood. Not companies who use OpenOffice,  
Companies who help develop the project. Without this we will face a slow  
dead. A project in this size need professional developers.

But companies don't com just to put money in, they want something back  
(normally). SUN and IBM was a big exception. The point is, we are not  
attractive for Companies at the moment. There is no room to make money. We  
should start getting attractive for companies.

Regards, Raphael



--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Hagar Delest-2
Le 20/05/2017 à 18:07, Raphael Bircher a écrit :
> But companies don't com just to put money in, they want something back (normally). SUN and IBM was a big exception. The point is, we are not attractive for Companies at the moment. There is no room to make money. We should start getting attractive for companies.

The only one I would see is Canonical. But i still don't understand why they chose LibO.
What other company would invest money in a MS Office competitor???
In addition to the investment in the development (meaning manpower cost but also the time needed to get the equivalent features they already have in MS Office), there would also be the training of the users, the migration of the existing tools and files (especially macros) and the problem of the format interoperability with the people this company deals with.
That's too much for companies to think about it IMHO. Or perhaps Google but what for?

Is there any company that invests substantially in LibO BTW (just a question, I really don't know)?
When I see all the migrations (mostly to LibO because it's much more dynamic and they are good at marketing their project), I just see bodies (often administrations) who want to cut costs but without major investment, they just take it because it serves their cause but I doubt there is any will to go further for them (I mean dedicate manpower to help the project).

I thought when OOo was given to Apache that the licensing would give interest to the project for companies but it did not happen at all. Less restrictive licensing attracts most of the devs. This is part of the world evolution today I guess: people want more free sharing, or at least want to avoid that their code can be used for commercial when they give it for free.

So I'm not very optimistic.
Hopefully someone has brighter clues.

Hagar

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Alex Suk
Many companies were affected in the recent cyber attack.
It shouldn't be hard to find a company sick of Microsoft...
Why not Deutsche Bahn or Renault for example?

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Hagar Delest <[hidden email]>
wrote:


> The only one I would see is Canonical. But i still don't understand why
> they chose LibO.
> What other company would invest money in a MS Office competitor???
>
> So I'm not very optimistic.
> Hopefully someone has brighter clues.
>
> Hagar
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Raphael Bircher-3
In reply to this post by Hagar Delest-2
Am .05.2017, 19:15 Uhr, schrieb Hagar Delest <[hidden email]>:

> Le 20/05/2017 à 18:07, Raphael Bircher a écrit :
>> But companies don't com just to put money in, they want something back  
>> (normally). SUN and IBM was a big exception. The point is, we are not  
>> attractive for Companies at the moment. There is no room to make money.  
>> We should start getting attractive for companies.
>
> The only one I would see is Canonical. But i still don't understand why  
> they chose LibO.
> What other company would invest money in a MS Office competitor???
> In addition to the investment in the development (meaning manpower cost  
> but also the time needed to get the equivalent features they already  
> have in MS Office), there would also be the training of the users, the  
> migration of the existing tools and files (especially macros) and the  
> problem of the format interoperability with the people this company  
> deals with.
> That's too much for companies to think about it IMHO. Or perhaps Google  
> but what for?

The main problem is, that we have no good reason to invest in OpenOffice.  
Since years, we just run behind MS Office. But we never get beyond a good  
copy of MS Office. License cost free is not a feature. The only benefit  
OpenOffice offers, is that it runs on 3 Operating system with the same  
code. this gives a base line in the program witch MS O lakes. We avoid a  
load of compatibility issue with this.

>
> Is there any company that invests substantially in LibO BTW (just a  
> question, I really don't know)?
> When I see all the migrations (mostly to LibO because it's much more  
> dynamic and they are good at marketing their project), I just see bodies  
> (often administrations) who want to cut costs but without major  
> investment, they just take it because it serves their cause but I doubt  
> there is any will to go further for them (I mean dedicate manpower to  
> help the project).

That was a big mistake of the old OpenOffice Marketing. They promote  
mostly the cost freeness. And they promote that you can save the License  
expense. On the first look, this is true, but on the second view id didn't  
work at all. With Open Source you save no license cost, because you need  
the money to bring the project forward.

For my point of view, saving money is a bad reason to use Open Source.

>
> I thought when OOo was given to Apache that the licensing would give  
> interest to the project for companies but it did not happen at all. Less  
> restrictive licensing attracts most of the devs. This is part of the  
> world evolution today I guess: people want more free sharing, or at  
> least want to avoid that their code can be used for commercial when they  
> give it for free.

The license only don't generate commercial interest. It needs an  
interesting Project for company, and it looks, we are not at the moment.  
At the moment, the OpenOffice Project don't give companies the opportunity  
to make money.

This will probably change as sonn as
- there exist easy ways to do a 3rd party version
- there is a substantial interest of Users investing money.




--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Patricia Shanahan
In reply to this post by Raphael Bircher-3
On 5/20/2017 9:07 AM, Raphael Bircher wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Am .05.2017, 16:32 Uhr, schrieb esh1907 <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Maybe we should try to locate and convince people who used to work during
>> Star and Sun Microsystems to rejoin the project?
>
> I think this is the wrong way to go. We can't get the good old time
> back. What we need is fresh business blood. Not companies who use
> OpenOffice, Companies who help develop the project. Without this we will
> face a slow dead. A project in this size need professional developers.
>
> But companies don't com just to put money in, they want something back
> (normally). SUN and IBM was a big exception. The point is, we are not
> attractive for Companies at the moment. There is no room to make money.
> We should start getting attractive for companies.

We may need both. If a company got interested in AOO today, they would
be presented with the same problem as I'm fighting: a large, complicated
body of code that seems to have been modified by separate departments -
just because I find out how something works in writer, it does not mean
I know how it works in calc.

A retired Sun or StarOffice person who understands how the code is put
together could save me a lot of time. My current low level objective is
to find where to put a break point to intercept a double click on OLE
substitute text. A few minutes of e-mail response from someone who
knows, or knows how to find out, might save me hours or days. The same
would apply to the professional developers you want.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Bugzilla

Raphael Bircher-3
Hi Patricia

Am .05.2017, 22:04 Uhr, schrieb Patricia Shanahan <[hidden email]>:

> On 5/20/2017 9:07 AM, Raphael Bircher wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> Am .05.2017, 16:32 Uhr, schrieb esh1907 <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Maybe we should try to locate and convince people who used to work  
>>> during
>>> Star and Sun Microsystems to rejoin the project?
>>
>> I think this is the wrong way to go. We can't get the good old time
>> back. What we need is fresh business blood. Not companies who use
>> OpenOffice, Companies who help develop the project. Without this we will
>> face a slow dead. A project in this size need professional developers.
>>
>> But companies don't com just to put money in, they want something back
>> (normally). SUN and IBM was a big exception. The point is, we are not
>> attractive for Companies at the moment. There is no room to make money.
>> We should start getting attractive for companies.
>
> We may need both. If a company got interested in AOO today, they would  
> be presented with the same problem as I'm fighting: a large, complicated  
> body of code that seems to have been modified by separate departments -  
> just because I find out how something works in writer, it does not mean  
> I know how it works in calc.
>
> A retired Sun or StarOffice person who understands how the code is put  
> together could save me a lot of time. My current low level objective is  
> to find where to put a break point to intercept a double click on OLE  
> substitute text. A few minutes of e-mail response from someone who  
> knows, or knows how to find out, might save me hours or days. The same  
> would apply to the professional developers you want.
I don't think, that this people are already retired, they are not old  
enough. And people from the pre SUN time bring not a load of benefit. Most  
of the code has changed since 1998. AFAIK one of the oldest part is the  
build in file picker (not the native one) He goes back to 199x.

But you are right, the ex people from SUN would be value. If the  
commercial situation of Apache OpenOffice changes, we can maybe get some  
of them back.

But what I want to say, we should not waste the time and try to restore  
the old project. OpenOffice is old, in the IT world very old. Things  
change from time to time. I don't say to scrap the old model immediately.  
Maybe we should invite people from the whole ASF to discuss how a modern  
Office Suite looks like. I believe we are to strong focused on the old  
concept. Sometimes this blocks new ideas and scares also companies with  
new ideas away.

Regards, Raphael
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>


--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

123
Loading...