Fwd: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

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Fwd: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Peter Kovacs-3
Hi all ,
what we do with this report?
There is an extension that handled this but there is still the complain to add this to the basic install.
So do we want o implement another regression type?
Or instead add the extention to our build?
Or leave it as is and close the issue?

All the Best
Peter


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: [hidden email]
Gesendet: 30. November 2017 23:15:53 MEZ
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=20819

--- Comment #78 from Robert Pollak <[hidden email]> ---
Let me mention that LibreOffice has got polynomial regression since 2014, see
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2#Chart.

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Re: Fwd: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Mechtilde Stehmann-2
Hello Peter,

the extension is under which license?

After this information we can discuss how to work further on it

Kind regards


Am 01.12.2017 um 06:16 schrieb Peter kovacs:

> Hi all ,
> what we do with this report?
> There is an extension that handled this but there is still the complain to add this to the basic install.
> So do we want o implement another regression type?
> Or instead add the extention to our build?
> Or leave it as is and close the issue?
>
> All the Best
> Peter
>
>
> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
> Von: [hidden email]
> Gesendet: 30. November 2017 23:15:53 MEZ
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=20819
>
> --- Comment #78 from Robert Pollak <[hidden email]> ---
> Let me mention that LibreOffice has got polynomial regression since 2014, see
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2#Chart.
>
--
Mechtilde Stehmann
## Apache OpenOffice.org
## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
## Debian Developer
## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
## PGP encryption welcome
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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

FR web forum
Already discussed in 2013:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201308.mbox/%3c5200FD92.3000801@...%3e


----- Mail original -----
De: "Mechtilde" <[hidden email]>
À: [hidden email]
Envoyé: Vendredi 1 Décembre 2017 07:45:58
Objet: Re: Fwd: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Hello Peter,

the extension is under which license?

After this information we can discuss how to work further on it

Kind regards


Am 01.12.2017 um 06:16 schrieb Peter kovacs:

> Hi all ,
> what we do with this report?
> There is an extension that handled this but there is still the complain to add this to the basic install.
> So do we want o implement another regression type?
> Or instead add the extention to our build?
> Or leave it as is and close the issue?
>
> All the Best
> Peter
>
>
> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
> Von: [hidden email]
> Gesendet: 30. November 2017 23:15:53 MEZ
> An: [hidden email]
> Betreff: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=20819
>
> --- Comment #78 from Robert Pollak <[hidden email]> ---
> Let me mention that LibreOffice has got polynomial regression since 2014, see
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2#Chart.
>

--
Mechtilde Stehmann
## Apache OpenOffice.org
## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
## Debian Developer
## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
## PGP encryption welcome
## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F


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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Peter Kovacs-3
The discussion does not answer what we prefer to do with the bug.
It seems to be more about backporting work from Libre Office.
Not about integrating an Apache Openoffice Extention.
Our extention page does not say anything about license. If I do not find anything in the extentionfile itself I will reach out to the maintainers, if they are willed to support an include process into AOO.
I would loop in the list as CC.  Objections?

Best
Peter

Am 1. Dezember 2017 10:06:54 MEZ schrieb FR web forum <[hidden email]>:

>Already discussed in 2013:
>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201308.mbox/%3c5200FD92.3000801@...%3e
>
>
>----- Mail original -----
>De: "Mechtilde" <[hidden email]>
>À: [hidden email]
>Envoyé: Vendredi 1 Décembre 2017 07:45:58
>Objet: Re: Fwd: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>
>Hello Peter,
>
>the extension is under which license?
>
>After this information we can discuss how to work further on it
>
>Kind regards
>
>
>Am 01.12.2017 um 06:16 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>> Hi all ,
>> what we do with this report?
>> There is an extension that handled this but there is still the
>complain to add this to the basic install.
>> So do we want o implement another regression type?
>> Or instead add the extention to our build?
>> Or leave it as is and close the issue?
>>
>> All the Best
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
>> Von: [hidden email]
>> Gesendet: 30. November 2017 23:15:53 MEZ
>> An: [hidden email]
>> Betreff: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>>
>> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=20819
>>
>> --- Comment #78 from Robert Pollak <[hidden email]> ---
>> Let me mention that LibreOffice has got polynomial regression since
>2014, see
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2#Chart.
>>

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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Marcus (OOo)
Am 01.12.2017 um 16:38 schrieb Peter kovacs:
> The discussion does not answer what we prefer to do with the bug.
> It seems to be more about backporting work from Libre Office.
> Not about integrating an Apache Openoffice Extention.
> Our extention page does not say anything about license. If I do not find anything in the extentionfile itself I will reach out to the maintainers, if they are willed to support an include process into AOO.
> I would loop in the list as CC.  Objections?

I don't see an advantage to integrate an already existing function.
That's the purpose of an extension: To add functionality into the base
program.

I would suggest to close the issue.

Marcus



> Am 1. Dezember 2017 10:06:54 MEZ schrieb FR web forum <[hidden email]>:
>> Already discussed in 2013:
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201308.mbox/%3c5200FD92.3000801@...%3e
>>
>>
>> ----- Mail original -----
>> De: "Mechtilde" <[hidden email]>
>> À: [hidden email]
>> Envoyé: Vendredi 1 Décembre 2017 07:45:58
>> Objet: Re: Fwd: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>>
>> Hello Peter,
>>
>> the extension is under which license?
>>
>> After this information we can discuss how to work further on it
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>> Am 01.12.2017 um 06:16 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>>> Hi all ,
>>> what we do with this report?
>>> There is an extension that handled this but there is still the
>> complain to add this to the basic install.
>>> So do we want o implement another regression type?
>>> Or instead add the extention to our build?
>>> Or leave it as is and close the issue?
>>>
>>> All the Best
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
>>> Von: [hidden email]
>>> Gesendet: 30. November 2017 23:15:53 MEZ
>>> An: [hidden email]
>>> Betreff: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>>>
>>> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=20819
>>>
>>> --- Comment #78 from Robert Pollak <[hidden email]> ---
>>> Let me mention that LibreOffice has got polynomial regression since
>> 2014, see
>>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2#Chart.


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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Peter Kovacs-3
For me the existance is not a strong argument. The bug is with 149 votes
quite popular. The discussion there is a repeatance that this is basic
feature.
I quote from bugzilla:

> This is absolutely a basic feature, i don't understand why there are more
> advanced regression types such as logaritmepic or poware when a polynomial
> regression is lacking.
>
> Besides, the rest of the regression are very limited. There are no options to
> manually adjust regressions.

So what is basic and what is not? If we do not integrate this extention
into Open Office then we need to explain this.
I think to refer to a extention is not self speaking. And we must clear
out any impression that there are 2 class developers.
Imho we must try to incorperate extention developers closer to the core
team. If we want new people, there is the source of volunteers.

All the best
Peter

On 01.12.2017 16:44, Marcus wrote:

> Am 01.12.2017 um 16:38 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>> The discussion does not answer what we prefer to do with the bug.
>> It seems to be more about backporting work from Libre Office.
>> Not about integrating an Apache Openoffice Extention.
>> Our extention page does not say anything about license. If I do not
>> find anything in the extentionfile itself I will reach out to the
>> maintainers, if they are willed to support an include process into AOO.
>> I would loop in the list as CC.  Objections?
>
> I don't see an advantage to integrate an already existing function.
> That's the purpose of an extension: To add functionality into the base
> program.
>
> I would suggest to close the issue.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>> Am 1. Dezember 2017 10:06:54 MEZ schrieb FR web forum
>> <[hidden email]>:
>>> Already discussed in 2013:
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201308.mbox/%3c5200FD92.3000801@...%3e 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Mail original -----
>>> De: "Mechtilde" <[hidden email]>
>>> À: [hidden email]
>>> Envoyé: Vendredi 1 Décembre 2017 07:45:58
>>> Objet: Re: Fwd: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>>>
>>> Hello Peter,
>>>
>>> the extension is under which license?
>>>
>>> After this information we can discuss how to work further on it
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 06:16 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>>>> Hi all ,
>>>> what we do with this report?
>>>> There is an extension that handled this but there is still the
>>> complain to add this to the basic install.
>>>> So do we want o implement another regression type?
>>>> Or instead add the extention to our build?
>>>> Or leave it as is and close the issue?
>>>>
>>>> All the Best
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
>>>> Von: [hidden email]
>>>> Gesendet: 30. November 2017 23:15:53 MEZ
>>>> An: [hidden email]
>>>> Betreff: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>>>>
>>>> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=20819
>>>>
>>>> --- Comment #78 from Robert Pollak <[hidden email]> ---
>>>> Let me mention that LibreOffice has got polynomial regression since
>>> 2014, see
>>>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2#Chart.
>
>
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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Marcus (OOo)
Am 01.12.2017 um 18:09 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
> For me the existance is not a strong argument. The bug is with 149 votes
> quite popular. The discussion there is a repeatance that this is basic
> feature.

but we don't know from when the votes are. Or is there a possiblity to
see in Bugzilla? The issue report is old as we can see on the ID. The
extension could have been created after all or the most votes were done.

> I quote from bugzilla:
>
>> This is absolutely a basic feature, i don't understand why there are more
>> advanced regression types such as logaritmepic or poware when a
>> polynomial
>> regression is lacking.
>>
>> Besides, the rest of the regression are very limited. There are no
>> options to
>> manually adjust regressions.
>
> So what is basic and what is not? If we do not integrate this extention
> into Open Office then we need to explain this.

Maybe because we have an *Office* Suite and not a *Mathematical* Suite?
;-) Seriously, I see  this as special mathematical featute and not a
basic feature for a software suite that contains also a word processor,
drawing, a presentation application and also database.

> I think to refer to a extention is not self speaking. And we must clear
> out any impression that there are 2 class developers.
> Imho we must try to incorperate extention developers closer to the core
> team. If we want new people, there is the source of volunteers.

OK, this is a very good point that we can follow. Maybe we can indeed
get some people that are willing to stay longer and to help us with the
core application.

Marcus



> On 01.12.2017 16:44, Marcus wrote:
>> Am 01.12.2017 um 16:38 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>>> The discussion does not answer what we prefer to do with the bug.
>>> It seems to be more about backporting work from Libre Office.
>>> Not about integrating an Apache Openoffice Extention.
>>> Our extention page does not say anything about license. If I do not
>>> find anything in the extentionfile itself I will reach out to the
>>> maintainers, if they are willed to support an include process into AOO.
>>> I would loop in the list as CC.  Objections?
>>
>> I don't see an advantage to integrate an already existing function.
>> That's the purpose of an extension: To add functionality into the base
>> program.
>>
>> I would suggest to close the issue.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>>> Am 1. Dezember 2017 10:06:54 MEZ schrieb FR web forum
>>> <[hidden email]>:
>>>> Already discussed in 2013:
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201308.mbox/%3c5200FD92.3000801@...%3e 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Mail original -----
>>>> De: "Mechtilde" <[hidden email]>
>>>> À: [hidden email]
>>>> Envoyé: Vendredi 1 Décembre 2017 07:45:58
>>>> Objet: Re: Fwd: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>>>>
>>>> Hello Peter,
>>>>
>>>> the extension is under which license?
>>>>
>>>> After this information we can discuss how to work further on it
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 06:16 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>>>>> Hi all ,
>>>>> what we do with this report?
>>>>> There is an extension that handled this but there is still the
>>>> complain to add this to the basic install.
>>>>> So do we want o implement another regression type?
>>>>> Or instead add the extention to our build?
>>>>> Or leave it as is and close the issue?
>>>>>
>>>>> All the Best
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
>>>>> Von: [hidden email]
>>>>> Gesendet: 30. November 2017 23:15:53 MEZ
>>>>> An: [hidden email]
>>>>> Betreff: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type
>>>>>
>>>>> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=20819
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Comment #78 from Robert Pollak <[hidden email]> ---
>>>>> Let me mention that LibreOffice has got polynomial regression since
>>>> 2014, see
>>>>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2#Chart.


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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Peter Kovacs-3
Am Freitag, den 01.12.2017, 18:17 +0100 schrieb Marcus:

> Am 01.12.2017 um 18:09 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
> > For me the existance is not a strong argument. The bug is with 149
> > votes
> > quite popular. The discussion there is a repeatance that this is
> > basic
> > feature.
>
> but we don't know from when the votes are. Or is there a possiblity
> to
> see in Bugzilla? The issue report is old as we can see on the ID.
> The
> extension could have been created after all or the most votes were
> done.
Since you can not renew your vote have to assume the vote goes to
provide a feature. It is difficult to dstinguish. However it is a
strongly requested feature that we can read from it.

The best way imho is to let the users vote. How about follwing flow:
1) check if we can include the extention by license or find an
agreement with the maintainers.
2) Put a call to Vote if the package should be included or not on the
Forums, as sticky.
3) advertise the vote and have a discussion with the community.
(Announcement, Youtube, Googleplus, facebook, user mailing list
4) After a month we gather the results and follow the desicion.

To be clear, I am not favoured for or against inclusion of an
extention. But for me it is crucial that people can see a concept
behind our decisions.

We said we would like to give our users a voice. Wouldn't it be
appropriate to give them exactly this voice? This is a clear concept to
me.

[...]

> So what is basic and what is not? If we do not integrate this
> > extention
> > into Open Office then we need to explain this.
>
> Maybe because we have an *Office* Suite and not a *Mathematical*
> Suite?
> ;-) Seriously, I see  this as special mathematical featute and not a
> basic feature for a software suite that contains also a word
> processor,
> drawing, a presentation application and also database.
calc is the mathematical processor in our suite.
Which sense does it make if declare math as advanced? ;)

> > clear
> > out any impression that there are 2 class developers.
> > Imho we must try to incorperate extention developers closer to the
> > core
> > team. If we want new people, there is the source of volunteers.
>
> OK, this is a very good point that we can follow. Maybe we can
> indeed
> get some people that are willing to stay longer and to help us with
> the
> core application.
Yay! :-D
More opinions please!

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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Marcus (OOo)
Am 02.12.2017 um 11:22 schrieb Peter Kovacs:

> Am Freitag, den 01.12.2017, 18:17 +0100 schrieb Marcus:
>> Am 01.12.2017 um 18:09 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
>>> For me the existance is not a strong argument. The bug is with 149
>>> votes
>>> quite popular. The discussion there is a repeatance that this is
>>> basic
>>> feature.
>>
>> but we don't know from when the votes are. Or is there a possiblity
>> to
>> see in Bugzilla? The issue report is old as we can see on the ID.
>> The
>> extension could have been created after all or the most votes were
>> done.
> Since you can not renew your vote have to assume the vote goes to
> provide a feature. It is difficult to dstinguish. However it is a
> strongly requested feature that we can read from it.
>
> The best way imho is to let the users vote. How about follwing flow:
> 1) check if we can include the extention by license or find an
> agreement with the maintainers.
> 2) Put a call to Vote if the package should be included or not on the
> Forums, as sticky.
> 3) advertise the vote and have a discussion with the community.
> (Announcement, Youtube, Googleplus, facebook, user mailing list
> 4) After a month we gather the results and follow the desicion.
>
> To be clear, I am not favoured for or against inclusion of an
> extention. But for me it is crucial that people can see a concept
> behind our decisions.
>
> We said we would like to give our users a voice. Wouldn't it be
> appropriate to give them exactly this voice? This is a clear concept to
> me.

maybe.

Sorry when this sounds too negative but thats my opinion. I think at the
moment we should spend our time for more important features and
processes than this special thing.

Marcus


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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Peter Kovacs-3
Am Samstag, den 02.12.2017, 14:40 +0100 schrieb Marcus:

>
> > We said we would like to give our users a voice. Wouldn't it be
> > appropriate to give them exactly this voice? This is a clear
> > concept to
> > me.
>
> maybe.
>
> Sorry when this sounds too negative but thats my opinion. I think at
> the
> moment we should spend our time for more important features and
> processes than this special thing.
>
I do not think your opinion is negative. And yea other things seem more
important.

Since the list is not such a good thing to remeber, I would like to
close the Issue existing with the argument that you have given, that
the extention covers the feature request.
I would also like to open a new Issue that contains the request to
deliver this Extention at default plus the current state of this
discussion.
So we can pick the discussion up at a later point.

Can we agree on this?

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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Marcus (OOo)
Am 02.12.2017 um 16:51 schrieb Peter Kovacs:

> Am Samstag, den 02.12.2017, 14:40 +0100 schrieb Marcus:
>>
>>> We said we would like to give our users a voice. Wouldn't it be
>>> appropriate to give them exactly this voice? This is a clear
>>> concept to
>>> me.
>>
>> maybe.
>>
>> Sorry when this sounds too negative but thats my opinion. I think at
>> the
>> moment we should spend our time for more important features and
>> processes than this special thing.
>>
> I do not think your opinion is negative. And yea other things seem more
> important.
>
> Since the list is not such a good thing to remeber, I would like to
> close the Issue existing with the argument that you have given, that
> the extention covers the feature request.
> I would also like to open a new Issue that contains the request to
> deliver this Extention at default plus the current state of this
> discussion.
> So we can pick the discussion up at a later point.

maybe you can also add the mail address of the author(s) and a comment
that the extension could be integrated into the core code as the users
want to have it present by default.
>
> Can we agree on this?

Sure :-)

Marcus


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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

jonathon-3
In reply to this post by Marcus (OOo)
On 12/01/2017 05:17 PM, Marcus wrote:
>>> This is absolutely a basic feature, i don't understand why there are
>>> more advanced regression types such as logaritmepic or poware when a
>>> polynomial regression is lacking.

> Maybe because we have an *Office* Suite and not a *Mathematical* Suite?

This type of thinking is why migrating from MSO can be problematic for
spreadsheet users.

> ;-) Seriously, I see  this as special mathematical feature and not a basic feature for a software suite that contains also a word processor, drawing, a presentation application and also database.

That would be acceptable if, and only if, there is zero expectation that
Calc is used for anything in the financial industry, or for any type of
forecasting, be it earthquakes, BitCoin Futures, or student grades.

jonathon


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Re: [Issue 20819] add polynomial regression type

Andrea Pescetti-2
In reply to this post by Peter Kovacs-3
Peter Kovacs wrote:
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=20819 ...
> The best way imho is to let the users vote. How about follwing flow:
> 1) check if we can include the extention by license or find an
> agreement with the maintainers.
> 2) Put a call to Vote if the package should be included or not on the
> Forums, as sticky.
> 3) advertise the vote and have a discussion with the community.
> (Announcement, Youtube, Googleplus, facebook, user mailing list
> 4) After a month we gather the results and follow the desicion.

Well, if you get past item 1 then you are done! Seriously, if new code
is contributed and available I don't see reasons to keep it out (note: I
see this as a reasonable feature for Calc).

Actually, there is an "item zero" which is preliminary to all this
discussion, and it is:

0) Does the extension work with the latest OpenOffice release? Does it
actually do what one would expect from the issue or not?

If the answer to item 0 is "no", then the entire discussion is
pointless. I haven't tested and I don't have time now, but the latest
release of that extension is quite old, so I wouldn't take for granted
that it works.

Regards,
   Andrea.

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