Improving the importing of placeholder fields

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Improving the importing of placeholder fields

Ramón García Fernández
We have a number of template Word documents with placeholder text fields. In Word they are implemented with MacroButtons, with a macro that is not defined. When the user clicks the field, it is selected. So, if the user types any text, the field disappears. This is more or less what is desired, although the interface is not perfect.
But in OpenOffice the result is confusing for the user. In the imported document, there is a field with a macro called "DoFieldClick". When the user double clicks the field, a dialog appears allowing to edit the field properties. The user does not know what to do.
The ideal interface would be for us the same used in Impress templates, like the one that I am attaching. When the user clicks in the text, the text disappears, and the user types the replacement. If the user does not type anything and moves the cursor to another place, the placeholder appears again.
What is the preferred approach that we should develop?

Best regards,

Ramón García Fernández.
Departamento de Infraestructura
Comisión Nacional de Mercado de Valores

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RE: Improving the importing of placeholder fields

Ramón García Fernández
We would be interested in implementing this feature. Would it be likely to be accepted?


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Ramón García Fernández [mailto:[hidden email]]
Enviado el: miércoles, 07 de julio de 2010 12:53
Para: [hidden email]
Asunto: [sw-discussion] Improving the importing of placeholder fields

We have a number of template Word documents with placeholder text fields. In Word they are implemented with MacroButtons, with a macro that is not defined. When the user clicks the field, it is selected. So, if the user types any text, the field disappears. This is more or less what is desired, although the interface is not perfect.
But in OpenOffice the result is confusing for the user. In the imported document, there is a field with a macro called "DoFieldClick". When the user double clicks the field, a dialog appears allowing to edit the field properties. The user does not know what to do.
The ideal interface would be for us the same used in Impress templates, like the one that I am attaching. When the user clicks in the text, the text disappears, and the user types the replacement. If the user does not type anything and moves the cursor to another place, the placeholder appears again.
What is the preferred approach that we should develop?


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Este mensaje y, en su caso, los ficheros que lleve incorporados, está dirigido exclusivamente a su destinatario y es de carácter confidencial. Si fuere recibido por error o se tuviere conocimiento del mismo sin ser su destinatario, rogamos nos lo comunique por la misma vía o telefónicamente (91 585 15 00) y proceda a su destrucción, debiendo abstenerse de utilizar, transmitir, divulgar o  reproducir la información contenida en el mismo. La CNMV se reserva las acciones legales que procedan contra todo tercero que acceda de forma ilegítima al contenido de cualquier mensaje externo procedente de la entidad

Para información y consultas visite nuestra web: http://www.cnmv.es


Disclaimer - Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores

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Re: Improving the importing of placeholder fields

Michael Stahl-5
On 09/07/2010 15:50, Ramón García Fernández wrote:
> We would be interested in implementing this feature. Would it be likely
> to be accepted?

after i finally think i understand what you want, it doesn't seem so
useful to me (see below)...

> -----Mensaje original----- De: Ramón García Fernández
> [mailto:[hidden email]] Enviado el: miércoles, 07 de julio de 2010
> 12:53 Para: [hidden email] Asunto: [sw-discussion] Improving the
> importing of placeholder fields
>
> We have a number of template Word documents with placeholder text
> fields. In Word they are implemented with MacroButtons, with a macro
> that is not defined. When the user clicks the field, it is selected.

so what you are saying is that you use one kind of Word field
(MacroButton) in a way that it is not intended to be used.
(apparently Word does not seem to have a placeholder field, or at least i
couldn't find one in the UI...)

> So, if the user types any text, the field disappears. This is more or
> less what is desired, although the interface is not perfect. But in
> OpenOffice the result is confusing for the user. In the imported
> document, there is a field with a macro called "DoFieldClick". When the
> user double clicks the field, a dialog appears allowing to edit the
> field properties. The user does not know what to do. The ideal

well, yes, because in the DOC file it is a MacroButton field.

> interface would be for us the same used in Impress templates, like the
> one that I am attaching. When the user clicks in the text, the text
> disappears, and the user types the replacement. If the user does not
> type anything and moves the cursor to another place, the placeholder
> appears again. What is the preferred approach that we should develop?

the ODF file format does have a placeholder field, and it can have one of
several types, one of which is "text".
OOo implements this placeholder field, and if you insert a placeholder
field of type "text" then it will work just like you want: you can click
it, and either type text, or hit escape.

it would be possible to such a field as some other type of field in a DOC
file, and to convert from that other type of field to placeholder on
import from a DOC file.
but it does not seem a good idea to me to do this in the general case.
some people (like you) may want that, but other people won't like it,
because they want to use that other type of field as it is.

so you could modify the WW8 filter (sw/source/filter/ww8) to do this
conversion in a customized build.
i guess another option would be to develop a macro that runs in your
office installations to convert such fields to placeholder fields after a
DOC file is imported.

well, the easiest way for you is probably to simply use ODF, which
supports the feature you want natively  :)

regards,
 michael

> Aviso legal – Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores
>
> Este mensaje y, en su caso, los ficheros que lleve incorporados, está
> dirigido exclusivamente a su destinatario y es de carácter
> confidencial. Si fuere recibido por error o se tuviere conocimiento del
> mismo sin ser su destinatario, rogamos nos lo comunique por la misma
> vía o telefónicamente (91 585 15 00) y proceda a su destrucción,
> debiendo abstenerse de utilizar, transmitir, divulgar o  reproducir la
> información contenida en el mismo. La CNMV se reserva las acciones
> legales que procedan contra todo tercero que acceda de forma ilegítima
> al contenido de cualquier mensaje externo procedente de la entidad
>
> Para información y consultas visite nuestra web: http://www.cnmv.es
>
>
> Disclaimer - Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores
>
> This message, its content and any file attached thereto is for the
> intended recipient only and is confidential. If you have received this
> e-mail in error or had access to it, you should note that the
> information in it is private and any use thereof is unauthorised. In
> such an event please notify us by e-mail or by telephone (+ 34 91 585
> 15 00). Any reproduction of this e-mail by whatsoever means and any
> transmission or dissemination thereof to other persons is prohibited.
> The Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores reserves the right to take
> legal action against any persons unlawfully gaining access to the
> content of any external message it has emitted
>
> For additional information, please visit our website:
> http://www.cnmv.es

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RE: Re: Improving the importing of placeholder fields

Ramón García Fernández
Our purpose is:
- Make the text placeholder user interface mor friendly, like in Impress templates.

When the user clicks the placeholder, the content should temporary disappear, in order to suggest the user to fill the text. Then, either the user types text, and the placeholder is removed from the document, or the user presses escape or moves the cursor, and the placeholder appears again.


- Import Word documents with text placeholders.

This is where you disagree.
Note that the recommended way of creating text placeholders in Word (2003) documents is to create a field with an undefined macro. This fields work in practice like ODF text placeholders. It would be incorrect to convert all macro fields to text placeholders. But there should be an option to convert those that call an specific macro, such as the non existent DoFieldClick. I talk from my experience. More input from users is needed.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Michael Stahl [mailto:[hidden email]]
Enviado el: martes, 03 de agosto de 2010 11:12
Para: [hidden email]
Asunto: [sw-discussion] Re: Improving the importing of placeholder fields

On 09/07/2010 15:50, Ramón García Fernández wrote:
> We would be interested in implementing this feature. Would it be
> likely to be accepted?

after i finally think i understand what you want, it doesn't seem so useful to me (see below)...

Aviso legal – Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores

Este mensaje y, en su caso, los ficheros que lleve incorporados, está dirigido exclusivamente a su destinatario y es de carácter confidencial. Si fuere recibido por error o se tuviere conocimiento del mismo sin ser su destinatario, rogamos nos lo comunique por la misma vía o telefónicamente (91 585 15 00) y proceda a su destrucción, debiendo abstenerse de utilizar, transmitir, divulgar o  reproducir la información contenida en el mismo. La CNMV se reserva las acciones legales que procedan contra todo tercero que acceda de forma ilegítima al contenido de cualquier mensaje externo procedente de la entidad

Para información y consultas visite nuestra web: http://www.cnmv.es


Disclaimer - Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores

This message, its content and any file attached thereto is for the intended recipient only and is confidential. If you have received this e-mail in error or had access to it, you should note that the information in it is private and any use thereof is unauthorised. In such an event please notify us by e-mail or by telephone (+ 34 91 585 15 00). Any reproduction of this e-mail by whatsoever means and any transmission or dissemination thereof to other persons is prohibited. The Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores reserves the right to take legal action against any persons unlawfully gaining access to the content of any external message it has emitted

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Re: Improving the importing of placeholder fields

Ramón García Fernández
I am implementing the text placeholders. I managed to make them invisible, I added a flag to SwJumpEditField and SwFldPortion. Now

I need to know how to:
- Refresh: tell Writer to reformat the current paragraph. I am looking for invalidation functions. It looks like there is a way to invalidate fields of a given type (SwFieldType::Modify), but I can't find such function for fields. In fact, it looks like when a field is changed in the UI, the current field is removed and a new field is inserted.

If a field is changed programatically (for instance, SwJumpEditField::PutValue), no invalidation function is run. Or this is what it seems to be.



-----Mensaje original-----
De: Ramón García Fernández [mailto:[hidden email]]
Enviado el: miércoles, 04 de agosto de 2010 16:01
Para: [hidden email]
Asunto: RE: [sw-discussion] Re: Improving the importing of placeholder fields

Our purpose is:
- Make the text placeholder user interface mor friendly, like in Impress templates.

When the user clicks the placeholder, the content should temporary disappear, in order to suggest the user to fill the text. Then, either the user types text, and the placeholder is removed from the document, or the user presses escape or moves the cursor, and the placeholder appears again.


- Import Word documents with text placeholders.

This is where you disagree.
Note that the recommended way of creating text placeholders in Word (2003) documents is to create a field with an undefined macro. This fields work in practice like ODF text placeholders. It would be incorrect to convert all macro fields to text placeholders. But there should be an option to convert those that call an specific macro, such as the non existent DoFieldClick. I talk from my experience. More input from users is needed.

Aviso legal – Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores

Este mensaje y, en su caso, los ficheros que lleve incorporados, está dirigido exclusivamente a su destinatario y es de carácter confidencial. Si fuere recibido por error o se tuviere conocimiento del mismo sin ser su destinatario, rogamos nos lo comunique por la misma vía o telefónicamente (91 585 15 00) y proceda a su destrucción, debiendo abstenerse de utilizar, transmitir, divulgar o  reproducir la información contenida en el mismo. La CNMV se reserva las acciones legales que procedan contra todo tercero que acceda de forma ilegítima al contenido de cualquier mensaje externo procedente de la entidad

Para información y consultas visite nuestra web: http://www.cnmv.es


Disclaimer - Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores

This message, its content and any file attached thereto is for the intended recipient only and is confidential. If you have received this e-mail in error or had access to it, you should note that the information in it is private and any use thereof is unauthorised. In such an event please notify us by e-mail or by telephone (+ 34 91 585 15 00). Any reproduction of this e-mail by whatsoever means and any transmission or dissemination thereof to other persons is prohibited. The Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores reserves the right to take legal action against any persons unlawfully gaining access to the content of any external message it has emitted

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RE: Re: Improving the importing of placeholder fields

Ramón García Fernández
In reply to this post by Ramón García Fernández
Sorry, clicked send to fast. The other thing is:

- How to be noticed when a field is no longer selected. So that if was hidden because of being clicked, if the user chooses not to overwrite it and go to another place, the field appears again.

Thanks.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Ramón García Fernández
Enviado el: viernes, 20 de agosto de 2010 16:36
Para: '[hidden email]'
Asunto: Re: Improving the importing of placeholder fields

I am implementing the text placeholders. I managed to make them invisible, I added a flag to SwJumpEditField and SwFldPortion. Now

I need to know how to:
- Refresh: tell Writer to reformat the current paragraph. I am looking for invalidation functions. It looks like there is a way to invalidate fields of a given type (SwFieldType::Modify), but I can't find such function for fields. In fact, it looks like when a field is changed in the UI, the current field is removed and a new field is inserted.

If a field is changed programatically (for instance, SwJumpEditField::PutValue), no invalidation function is run. Or this is what it seems to be.



Aviso legal – Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores

Este mensaje y, en su caso, los ficheros que lleve incorporados, está dirigido exclusivamente a su destinatario y es de carácter confidencial. Si fuere recibido por error o se tuviere conocimiento del mismo sin ser su destinatario, rogamos nos lo comunique por la misma vía o telefónicamente (91 585 15 00) y proceda a su destrucción, debiendo abstenerse de utilizar, transmitir, divulgar o  reproducir la información contenida en el mismo. La CNMV se reserva las acciones legales que procedan contra todo tercero que acceda de forma ilegítima al contenido de cualquier mensaje externo procedente de la entidad

Para información y consultas visite nuestra web: http://www.cnmv.es


Disclaimer - Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores

This message, its content and any file attached thereto is for the intended recipient only and is confidential. If you have received this e-mail in error or had access to it, you should note that the information in it is private and any use thereof is unauthorised. In such an event please notify us by e-mail or by telephone (+ 34 91 585 15 00). Any reproduction of this e-mail by whatsoever means and any transmission or dissemination thereof to other persons is prohibited. The Comisión Nacional del Mercado de Valores reserves the right to take legal action against any persons unlawfully gaining access to the content of any external message it has emitted

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