JabRef - OpenOffice integration

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JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Morten Omholt Alver
Hi,

I have been working on a plugin for integrating JabRef better with
OpenOffice.org via the UNO interface (to clarify: it's a plugin for
JabRef - which will support plugins from the next version). It's far
from finished, but you can at the moment do the basics like inserting
citations and formatting the bibliography according to a style
definition. I'd like to try to get the help of some interested users
with testing and development.

The plan is for this plugin eventually to be bundled with JabRef, but
for now, I've made the current version of the plugin available on the
following address:

http://www.itk.ntnu.no/ansatte/Alver_Omholt_Morten/jabref/OOPlugin.html

The source code isn't too comprehensive, so if you're interested in
helping out, try it out and have a look at the code!


Sincerely,
Morten Alver

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Bruce D'Arcus
On Dec 4, 2007 2:42 PM, Morten Omholt Alver <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have been working on a plugin for integrating JabRef better with
> OpenOffice.org via the UNO interface (to clarify: it's a plugin for
> JabRef - which will support plugins from the next version). It's far
> from finished, but you can at the moment do the basics like inserting
> citations and formatting the bibliography according to a style
> definition. I'd like to try to get the help of some interested users
> with testing and development.

Cool; thanks for the note.

> The plan is for this plugin eventually to be bundled with JabRef, but
> for now, I've made the current version of the plugin available on the
> following address:
>
> http://www.itk.ntnu.no/ansatte/Alver_Omholt_Morten/jabref/OOPlugin.html
>
> The source code isn't too comprehensive, so if you're interested in
> helping out, try it out and have a look at the code!

This brings up something I've been thinking about for awhile. I'm not
sure if David or others agree with me on this, but here's my thinking:

The OOo bibliographic project started with the idea to replace the
integrated bibliographic component with something much better, but
still developed within the framework of OOo.

For a variety of reasons, I think this is the wrong way to go. One of
those reasons is that the Zotero project has pretty much done what I'd
hope to achieve with OOoBib:

1) a rich data model and nice UI
2) good import/export
3) use of the CSL citation styling language
4) integration iwith Word and OOo

... and so, finally a good, cross-platform application that is
suitable for a wide range of fields, including the social sciences and
humanities (where traditional tools often fail). I'm currently using
it for an article manuscript.

I'd like to see this project, then, work on enhancing the integration
of tools like Zotero and JabRef with OOo. I'd encourage people, for
example, to get their hands dirty with testing, with trying to offer
support on places like the Zotero forums, and where possible to spend
time figuring out the code so that we can ensure excellent support
long-term, enhancements, and so forth.

I'd ideally like to use this work to converge on an enhanced citation
API in OOo that allows for standardized integration (and encoding in
ODF 1.2)

I'd also like to see other projects pick up CSL, but that's a somewhat
separate issue.

So I'm basically suggesting a shift in focus designed to get stuff
working NOW, and enhance as we go.

Thoughts?

Bruce

PS - Oh, and I think we should urge Sun deprecate the existing
citation and bib support ASAP.

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Paolo Cavallini
Bruce D'Arcus ha scritto:
...
> So I'm basically suggesting a shift in focus designed to get stuff
> working NOW, and enhance as we go.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Bruce
>
> PS - Oh, and I think we should urge Sun deprecate the existing
> citation and bib support ASAP.

Bruce:
I completely agree with you. Even if still work has to be done on it,
Zotero seems really the killing app in this field.
Unfortunately, for the moment the styles are few, and there is not a
practical way of contributing, but I understand this is going to change
soon.
All the best.
pc
--
Paolo Cavallini, see: http://www.faunalia.it/pc

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Bruce D'Arcus
On Dec 5, 2007 12:52 AM, Paolo Cavallini <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I completely agree with you. Even if still work has to be done on it,
> Zotero seems really the killing app in this field.
> Unfortunately, for the moment the styles are few, and there is not a
> practical way of contributing, but I understand this is going to change
> soon.

Have you seen ...

<http://www.zotero.org/styles>

...? In the space of a few weeks, the number of styles has grown
dramatically, mostly as the result of contributions from one person.

Oh, and with Zotero 1.02, you can install them by clicking the
"install" link; works beautifully. Also, the styles are free for any
project to use.

Bruce

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Morten Omholt Alver
In reply to this post by Morten Omholt Alver
Bruce,

thanks for your reply!

> I realize I may not have been clear Morten, since I was talking to
> different people in reply to your post, but my basic mesage for you
> is:
>
> a) great to see your work
> b) take a look at Zotero and CSL and see if you see anything to use or borrow

I had a (very) quick look at CSL, and it seems to be a good way of
expressing the bibliography structure - what my plugin uses the
STRUCTURE section (and PROPERTIES, as well) of the style file for (if
you looked at my page). I don't like introducing an arbitrary new type
of style files, so I'll definitely be interested in applying CSL
instead.

There are two other links needed for the interaction: first, where is
the information specified by CSL coming from? In JabRef's case, it
comes from BibTeX fields, filtered by JabRef's formatters (as in the
FORMATTERS section of my style file). I guess we would need to find
some other place (outside of the CSL) for this information?

The other thing is whether OpenOffice will support CSL, or if we need
to transform it ourselves into OO's bibliography structure? I
understand that this could possibly be a difficult question to answer
at the moment.


--
Morten

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Paolo Cavallini
In reply to this post by Bruce D'Arcus
Bruce D'Arcus ha scritto:

> Oh, and with Zotero 1.02, you can install them by clicking the
> "install" link; works beautifully. Also, the styles are free for any
> project to use.

OT: is Z 1.0.2 out? No sign of it on the home page.
All the best.
pc
--
Paolo Cavallini, see: http://www.faunalia.it/pc

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Bruce D'Arcus
On Dec 5, 2007 9:37 AM, Paolo Cavallini <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Bruce D'Arcus ha scritto:
>
> > Oh, and with Zotero 1.02, you can install them by clicking the
> > "install" link; works beautifully. Also, the styles are free for any
> > project to use.
>
> OT: is Z 1.0.2 out? No sign of it on the home page.

No, but you can use the dev version now.

<http://dev.zotero.org/svn_and_trac_access#development_xpi>

Bruce

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Bruce D'Arcus
In reply to this post by Morten Omholt Alver
On Dec 5, 2007 9:21 AM, Morten Omholt Alver <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There are two other links needed for the interaction: first, where is
> the information specified by CSL coming from? In JabRef's case, it
> comes from BibTeX fields, filtered by JabRef's formatters (as in the
> FORMATTERS section of my style file). I guess we would need to find
> some other place (outside of the CSL) for this information?

Think of CSL as providing it's own generic model that one can map
different input formats to.

But WRT to OOo and ODF, I expect to be using an RDF representation
(since ODF 1.2 will suppoort RDF for metadata):

<http://bibliontology.com>

BTW, there's a developer at the Xbib project who has been working on a
ruby CSL engine and biblio ontoloogy object model.

> The other thing is whether OpenOffice will support CSL, or if we need
> to transform it ourselves into OO's bibliography structure? I
> understand that this could possibly be a difficult question to answer
> at the moment.

I have talked with the ODF TC about formally including CSL in the ODF
spec, so that may happen at some point. But I would consider the
existing support in OOo and ODF as legacy that will at some point get
deprecated. Indeed, Zotero completely bypasses it now.

Bruce

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

David Wilson-7
In reply to this post by Morten Omholt Alver
Morton,

        Thanks, I have done a quick test and the OOo plugin seems to work well. I
shall update our web pages to mention your plugin.

David

On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, Morten Omholt Alver wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been working on a plugin for integrating JabRef better with
> OpenOffice.org via the UNO interface (to clarify: it's a plugin for
> JabRef - which will support plugins from the next version). It's far
> from finished, but you can at the moment do the basics like inserting
> citations and formatting the bibliography according to a style
> definition. I'd like to try to get the help of some interested users
> with testing and development.
>
> The plan is for this plugin eventually to be bundled with JabRef, but
> for now, I've made the current version of the plugin available on the
> following address:
>
> http://www.itk.ntnu.no/ansatte/Alver_Omholt_Morten/jabref/OOPlugin.html
>
> The source code isn't too comprehensive, so if you're interested in
> helping out, try it out and have a look at the code!
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Morten Alver
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]



--
-------------------
David N. Wilson
Co-Project Lead for the Bibliographic
OpenOffice.org Project
http://bibliographic.openoffice.org

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
---- 8< ---- David Wilson ---- 8< ----
> Morton,
>
> Thanks, I have done a quick test and the OOo plugin seems to work well. I
> shall update our web pages to mention your plugin.
>
> David
---- 8< ---- David Wilson ---- 8< ----

While I don't want to hijack the thread, I would like to know if anyone
knows this: BibTeX has had issues with unicode characters - earlier, I
have tried to make a bibliography using Jabref with Russian literature -
and failed. Is this still an issue, or is it only a problem if one is to
use it with LaTeX?

Yours,
Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér

__
http://www.syntaktisk.dk

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Morten Omholt Alver
In reply to this post by Bruce D'Arcus
On 05/12/2007, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Dec 5, 2007 9:21 AM, Morten Omholt Alver <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The other thing is whether OpenOffice will support CSL, or if we need
> > to transform it ourselves into OO's bibliography structure? I
> > understand that this could possibly be a difficult question to answer
> > at the moment.
>
> I have talked with the ODF TC about formally including CSL in the ODF
> spec, so that may happen at some point. But I would consider the
> existing support in OOo and ODF as legacy that will at some point get
> deprecated. Indeed, Zotero completely bypasses it now.

That's an interesting thought. So Zotero creates and formats its own
bibliography field without even touching the built-in bibliography
features? I hadn't really considered that option, but I can imagine
that this wouldn't be too difficult. It would also let us bypass the
limitations of the bibliography system. I need to learn more about
using the UNO API...

--
Morten

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Bruce D'Arcus
Morten Omholt Alver wrote:

> That's an interesting thought. So Zotero creates and formats its own
> bibliography field without even touching the built-in bibliography
> features?

Correct.

> I hadn't really considered that option, but I can imagine
> that this wouldn't be too difficult. It would also let us bypass the
> limitations of the bibliography system.

Right, which are significant.

> I need to learn more about
> using the UNO API...

Ideally, I'd like to see if we can get Sun to:

a) implement the new metadata support
b) move the citation and bibliographic API to use A, and enhance it as
needed (based on the experience of Zotero, JabRef, etc.)

Bruce

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

David Wilson-7
In reply to this post by Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér wrote:

>
> While I don't want to hijack the thread, I would like to know if anyone
> knows this: BibTeX has had issues with unicode characters - earlier, I
> have tried to make a bibliography using Jabref with Russian literature -
> and failed. Is this still an issue, or is it only a problem if one is to
> use it with LaTeX?
>
> Yours,
> Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
>
There are version of LaTex that that support unicode. I found a reference to
Latex support of Unicode for Chinese.

http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/cs/cjk.html

But the page does not mention BibTeX

This comment suggests that bibtex8 (i.e. 8-bit BibTeX), which is found on CTAN
may work. As it is an An 8-bit Implementation of BibTeX 0.99 with
multilanguage support. -

http://osdir.com/ml/tex.bibtex.jurabib.user/2005-04/msg00006.html

david

--
-------------------
David N. Wilson
Co-Project Lead for the Bibliographic
OpenOffice.org Project
http://bibliographic.openoffice.org

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

brendel
In reply to this post by Morten Omholt Alver
Hello,

I agree that the bibliographic functionning need not be within
OpenOffice,
however just to remind you : Zotero is not the only "working" example
out there , Bibus integrates nicely with OO and Word without using
the OO integrated database.

Oliver


On 6 Dec 2007 at 20:53, Morten Omholt Alver wrote:

Date sent:       Thu, 6 Dec 2007 20:53:05 +0100
From:           "Morten Omholt Alver" <[hidden email]>
To:             [hidden email]
Copies to:       [hidden email]
Subject:         Re: [users-biblio] JabRef - OpenOffice integration

> On 05/12/2007, Bruce D'Arcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Dec 5, 2007 9:21 AM, Morten Omholt Alver <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > The other thing is whether OpenOffice will support CSL, or if we need
> > > to transform it ourselves into OO's bibliography structure? I
> > > understand that this could possibly be a difficult question to answer
> > > at the moment.
> >
> > I have talked with the ODF TC about formally including CSL in the ODF
> > spec, so that may happen at some point. But I would consider the
> > existing support in OOo and ODF as legacy that will at some point get
> > deprecated. Indeed, Zotero completely bypasses it now.
>
> That's an interesting thought. So Zotero creates and formats its own
> bibliography field without even touching the built-in bibliography
> features? I hadn't really considered that option, but I can imagine
> that this wouldn't be too difficult. It would also let us bypass the
> limitations of the bibliography system. I need to learn more about
> using the UNO API...
>
> --
> Morten
>


_________________________________________________________
Oliver Brendel UMR Ecologie et Ecophysiologie Forestiere
INRA - Centre de Nancy         54280 Champenoux    France
[hidden email]   TEL 0033/383/394100  FAX /394022

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Re: JabRef - OpenOffice integration

Bruce D'Arcus
[hidden email] wrote:

> I agree that the bibliographic functionning need not be within
> OpenOffice,
> however just to remind you : Zotero is not the only "working" example
> out there , Bibus integrates nicely with OO and Word without using
> the OO integrated database.

True enough.

But to be blunt, Zotero is the only working example that I consider
adequate to the full range of citation practice.

Bibus adopts the very limited BibTeX-based data model of ODF 1.0. This
already means its limited mostly to the hard sciences. For that reason
alone, I can't use it.

Zotero, OTOH, supports a fuller data model. It also supports a fuller
range of citation practices common in the social sciences and humanities
(and hopefully law):

  - automatic footnoting of note-based references
  - support for ibid.
  - first/subsequent references forms
  - prefix and suffix notes
  - page, line, etc. locators for citations

These kinds of details can impact implementation of course.

But I'd love to see a variety of projects (including Bibus) help us to
figure out how to move forward and hopefully converge on a generic
solution for integration. To me the ultimate goal is that different
users, using different bibliographic applications AND different ODF
editors (perhaps even Word) can pass around their documents and have the
citations remain "live."

There's a bit of work to do before we can get there of course!

BTW, see Mathias Bauer's recent post no field enhancements coming in OOo
2.4.

<http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/custom_properties_and_fields>

That could be an interim solution before the new text:meta-field from
ODF 1.2 gets implemented that would give us better functionality and
interop with Word.

Bruce

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