Many dics for one language

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Many dics for one language

Jancs
Hi there!

Can someone explain to me, how can i achieve the possibility to use  
multiple dictionaries for one language, as, for example, in case of  
French or English?

for example, there is main dic for Latvian lv_LV.dic and some  
additional specific dics - one for chemistry, another - for medicine.

how can i register them in dictionary.lst for OO to use them?

Besides, there is a dialect in Latvia (Latgalian) which differs quite  
a lot from Latvian (I'd call it separate language from the same group  
as Latvian) - how can i make OO to use dic for that specific dialect  
not confusing with Latvian?

The same - for OO3.

Best regards -
Janis

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Re: Many dics for one language

Дмитрий Габинский
Tue, 23 Sep 2008 09:54:30 +0300, Jancs <[hidden email]> skribis:

> how can i register them in dictionary.lst for OO to use them?

You can simply make several entries to dictionary.lst, such as:
DICT lv LV lv_LV
DICT lv LV lv_LV_my_dictionary
(provided that you have both lv_LV.dic/.aff and
lv_LV_my_dictionary.dic/.aff)

>Latvian) - how can i make OO to use dic for that specific dialect  not
>confusing with Latvian?

No way, if it has no separate ISO code.

Best regards,

Dmitri Gabinski
   


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Re: Many dics for one language

Дмитрий Габинский
Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:18:01 +0300, Dmitri Gabinski <[hidden email]> skribis:

> No way, if it has no separate ISO code.

Correction: no way at all, OOo does not know Latgalian. The only way is to
mark a text in that language as any other language that you don't use…

Best regards,

Dmitri Gabinski
   


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Re: Many dics for one language

Olivier R.-2
In reply to this post by Jancs
Hi,

Jancs a écrit :

> Can someone explain to me, how can i achieve the possibility to use
> multiple dictionaries for one language, as, for example, in case of
> French or English?
>
> for example, there is main dic for Latvian lv_LV.dic and some additional
> specific dics - one for chemistry, another - for medicine.
>
> how can i register them in dictionary.lst for OO to use them?

With OOo 2, an example:

dictionary.lst :

DICT fr FR fr_FR
DICT fr FR perso


The files required:
- fr_FR.dic
- fr_FR.aff
- perso.dic
- perso.aff

Even if perso.aff == fr_FR.aff, two affixes files are indispensible.


> Besides, there is a dialect in Latvia (Latgalian) which differs quite a
> lot from Latvian (I'd call it separate language from the same group as
> Latvian) - how can i make OO to use dic for that specific dialect not
> confusing with Latvian?

I don't know. Try to it this dialect to another locale not already used.
But the best is probably to ask to developers to add a new locale for
this specific dictionary: lv_XX ?


> The same - for OO3.

Until now, I didn't manage to set two dictionaries for one locale.


Best regards,
Olivier

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Re: Many dics for one language

Jancs
Quoting "Olivier R." <[hidden email]>:

> Even if perso.aff == fr_FR.aff, two affixes files are indispensible.

aa, now i got why it not worked, thanks!

>> Besides, there is a dialect in Latvia (Latgalian) which differs  
>> quite a lot from Latvian (I'd call it separate language from the  
>> same group as Latvian) - how can i make OO to use dic for that  
>> specific dialect not confusing with Latvian?
>
> I don't know. Try to it this dialect to another locale not already used.
> But the best is probably to ask to developers to add a new locale for
> this specific dictionary: lv_XX ?

Ok, i have to make some aff/dic for strater and then try to  
incorporate it's recognition in OO :)

Janis

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Re: Many dics for one language

thomas.lange
In reply to this post by Jancs


Hi Jancs,

May I remind all of you that the dictionary.lst is no longer existing
since OOo 3.0 because it was a cause of major trouble at updating...

Thus anything discussed should at most work with OOo 2.x.
But even with those versions I think making multiple entries like

  DICT lv LV lv_LV
  DICT lv LV lv_LV_my_dictionary

may still result in having just one dictionary be used in the end
(depending on the code in question). But I must admit I would neeed to
look at the code or try it for myself, since I never used more than one
 dictionary for a single language.


Regards,
Thomas


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Re: Many dics for one language

Jancs
Quoting Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg <[hidden email]>:

> may still result in having just one dictionary be used in the end
> (depending on the code in question). But I must admit I would neeed to
> look at the code or try it for myself, since I never used more than one
>  dictionary for a single language.

Dear Thomas,

can you tell me how hard (what procedure to follow) it could be to  
introduce to OO the mentioned dialect of Latvian (Latgalian)?

any other possibilities?

Regards
Janis

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Re: Many dics for one language

Дмитрий Габинский
In reply to this post by thomas.lange
Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:19:22 +0200, Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 -
Hamburg <[hidden email]> skribis:

> But even with those versions I think making multiple entries like
>
>  DICT lv LV lv_LV
>  DICT lv LV lv_LV_my_dictionary
>
> may still result in having just one dictionary be used

Wow, Thomas, you're supposed to be on the development side and know more
than mere users do! With multiple entries for the same locale, _all_
dictionaries will be used. The Russian build from Infra Resurs goes with two
dictionaries for Russian (Russia):

DICT ru RU ru_RU
DICT ru RU ru_RU_yo

and the both are used (which inter alia results sometimes in duplicate
suggestions for misspelled words).

I also use two dictionaries for Russian — standard ru_RU_yo and my personal
one, both functioning well. I've also packed them both into an extension for
3.0 — equally good.

Best regards,

Dmitri Gabinski
   


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Re: Many dics for one language

thomas.lange
In reply to this post by Jancs

Hi Dmitri,

> Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:19:22 +0200, Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 -
> Hamburg <[hidden email]> skribis:
>
>> But even with those versions I think making multiple entries like
>>
>>  DICT lv LV lv_LV
>>  DICT lv LV lv_LV_my_dictionary
>>
>> may still result in having just one dictionary be used
>
> Wow, Thomas, you're supposed to be on the development side and know more
> than mere users do! With multiple entries for the same locale, _all_
> dictionaries will be used. The Russian build from Infra Resurs goes with two
> dictionaries for Russian (Russia):
>
> DICT ru RU ru_RU
> DICT ru RU ru_RU_yo
>
> and the both are used (which inter alia results sometimes in duplicate
> suggestions for misspelled words).

Well that is because aside from language guessing and recently
dictionary extensions I had not much at all to do with lingucomponent.
Thus I did not know about that detail. ^_-
I thought this to be a still missing feature. In that case however I do
wonder why there aren't much specialized dictionaries to be found e.g.
'scientific', 'medical', etc. ...

> I also use two dictionaries for Russian — standard ru_RU_yo and my personal
> one, both functioning well. I've also packed them both into an extension for
> 3.0 — equally good.

Do you mean a single extension?
Just of curiosity I had a look into the code and I think it should work
as well if they are into separate extensions as long as the node names
for the dictionary files in the configuration do differ...

Thomas


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Re: Many dics for one language

Olivier R.-2
Hi,

Dmitri Gabinski wrote :

> I also use two dictionaries for Russian — standard ru_RU_yo and my personal
> one, both functioning well. I've also packed them both into an extension for
> 3.0 — equally good.

I can't figure out why what works for Russian doesn't work for French.
:(

I downloaded the russian extension and look its inside, and I don't see
much differences with what I did.

Except the file dictionaries.xcu, did you change something else?

Russian:

<node oor:name="HunSpellDic_ruRU" oor:op="fuse">
     <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>%origin%/ru_RU.aff %origin%/ru_RU.dic</value>
     </prop>
     <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
         <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
     </prop>
     <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>ru-RU</value>
     </prop>
</node>
<node oor:name="HunSpellDic_ruRU_yo" oor:op="fuse">
     <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>%origin%/ru_RU_yo.aff %origin%/ru_RU_yo.dic</value>
     </prop>
     <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
         <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
     </prop>
     <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>ru-RU</value>
     </prop>
</node>


French:

<node oor:name="HunSpellDic_fr_FR-Classique-et-Reforme1990" oor:op="fuse">
     <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>%origin%/fr_FR.aff %origin%/fr_FR.dic</value>
     </prop>
     <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
         <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
     </prop>
     <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>fr-FR fr-BE fr-CA fr-CH fr-LU fr-MC</value>
     </prop>
</node>
<node oor:name="HunSpellDic_fr_FR-perso" oor:op="fuse">
     <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>%origin%/perso.aff %origin%/perso.dic</value>
     </prop>
     <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
         <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
     </prop>
     <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
         <value>fr-FR fr-BE fr-CA fr-CH fr-LU fr-MC</value>
     </prop>
</node>

Best regards
Olivier

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Re: Many dics for one language

Дмитрий Габинский
Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:56:49 +0200, "Olivier R." <[hidden email]> skribis:

> I can't figure out why what works for Russian doesn't work for French.
> :(

Funny, I've used the French pack as a template :)

> I downloaded the russian extension and look its inside, and I don't see
>much differences with what I did.

Sorry, I was not clear: it's my own pack, not the officially distributed —
because I've significantly expanded the standard ru_RU_yo dictionary with
technical/scientific terms, tried to contact the maintainers of it and got
nothing but icy silence. So I keep it for myself — not because I'm greedy,
but because I'm not sure if I entitled to distribute it and I don't want to
create a fork.

> Except the file dictionaries.xcu, did you change something else?

No, I did not change — I've created it (again, je vous baise, chers amis
français :). My dictionaries.xcu looks like:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<oor:component-data xmlns:oor="http://openoffice.org/2001/registry"
xmlns:xs="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" oor:name="Linguistic"
oor:package="org.openoffice.Office">
  <node oor:name="ServiceManager">
     <node oor:name="Dictionaries">
         <node oor:name="HunSpellDic_ru_RU_yo" oor:op="fuse">
             <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
                 <value>%origin%/ru_RU_yo.aff %origin%/ru_RU_yo.dic</value>
             </prop>
             <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
                 <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
             </prop>
             <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
                 <value>ru-RU</value>
             </prop>
         </node>
         <node oor:name="HunSpellDic_ru_RU_bnx" oor:op="fuse">
             <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
                 <value>%origin%/ru_RU_yo_bnx.aff
%origin%/ru_RU_yo_bnx.dic</value>
             </prop>
             <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
                 <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
             </prop>
             <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
                 <value>ru-RU</value>
             </prop>
         </node>
     </node>
  </node>
</oor:component-data>

(this means, I have ru_RU_yo being the main dictionary and ru_RU_yo_bnx
being my personal dictionary with some proper names, trademarks etc that I
don't deem necessary in the main corpus).

Best regards,

Dmitri Gabinski
   


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Re: Many dics for one language

Дмитрий Габинский
In reply to this post by thomas.lange
Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:58:33 +0200, Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 -
Hamburg <[hidden email]> skribis:

> Do you mean a single extension?

Yes, I've given some more details in my answer to Olivier's message.

> Just of curiosity I had a look into the code and I think it should work
> as well if they are into separate extensions as long as the node names
> for the dictionary files in the configuration do differ...

Ah, good then. However, if different dictionaries are developed by different
teams without coordination, they may use node names they find intuitive
which may coincide.

Best regards,

Dmitri Gabinski
   


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Для того чтобы быть успешным, важно уметь использовать собственные ресурсы
с максимальной отдачей. Семинар 'URBAN TIME: как выжить и преуспеть в
потоке времени', 14-15 октября в Бизнес-школе ИПМ. http://www.ipm.by/


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Re: Many dics for one language

thomas.lange
In reply to this post by Jancs

Hi Olivier and Dmitri,


Olivier R. wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Dmitri Gabinski wrote :
>
>> I also use two dictionaries for Russian — standard ru_RU_yo and my personal
>> one, both functioning well. I've also packed them both into an extension for
>> 3.0 — equally good.
>
> I can't figure out why what works for Russian doesn't work for French.
> :(
>

Maybe the problem here is a misunderstanding of what both extensions do...

As I understand Dmitri in his private extension does comes along with
just one standard Russian dictionary and a scientific add-on dictionaries.
There should be no problem with that since the scientific one should
just add new words that are *not* already withing the standard dictionary.

And if I need to guess Olivier why you are asking what is the
difference, it is because you want to know why you are required to have
three extensions for French.
If my guess is correct than the answer to that is, that in all of your
extensions you are providing different versions of a standard French
dictionary. We may call them base dictionaries.
Non of them is just a add-on dictionaries. Your dictionaries should
basically cover the same set of words but with different writing-styles.
In that case technically they could be in the same extension, but what
will happen is that OOo makes use of all of them at the same time and
accepting any word that is correct in at least one of them. Thus
essentially allowing for all three writing-styles at the same time.
I think that is not what you want. And in order to let the user make a
choice you had to provide them as different extensions.

Please correct me if I misunderstood something.

Regards,
Thomas









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Re: Many dics for one language

Дмитрий Габинский
Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:38:45 +0200, Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 -
Hamburg <[hidden email]> skribis:

> As I understand Dmitri in his private extension does comes along with
> just one standard Russian dictionary and a scientific add-on dictionaries.

Not really, I've got a standard one with words added and an add-on
dictionary with some personal names, trademarks etc. But anyway, technically
that:

> There should be no problem with that since the scientific one should
> just add new words that are *not* already withing the standard dictionary.

is correct, the dictionaries do not overlap.

Best regards,

Dmitri Gabinski
     


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Re: Many dics for one language

Olivier R.-2
In reply to this post by Дмитрий Габинский
Hi Dmitri,

Dmitri Gabinski a écrit :

> No, I did not change — I've created it (again, je vous baise, chers amis
> français :). My dictionaries.xcu looks like:

You should have a look in a French slang dictionary ;)
Otherwise you will possibly be misunderstood... If you are lucky enough,
the tone of the voice should indicate to your listeners that you
intended to say something else. :)

I have done a similar mistake years ago. That was not funny at the moment.

"je vous embrasse" or "je vous salue" are better.


> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <oor:component-data xmlns:oor="http://openoffice.org/2001/registry"
> xmlns:xs="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" oor:name="Linguistic"
> oor:package="org.openoffice.Office">
>  <node oor:name="ServiceManager">
>     <node oor:name="Dictionaries">
>         <node oor:name="HunSpellDic_ru_RU_yo" oor:op="fuse">
>             <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
>                 <value>%origin%/ru_RU_yo.aff %origin%/ru_RU_yo.dic</value>
>             </prop>
>             <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
>                 <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
>             </prop>
>             <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
>                 <value>ru-RU</value>
>             </prop>
>         </node>
>         <node oor:name="HunSpellDic_ru_RU_bnx" oor:op="fuse">
>             <prop oor:name="Locations" oor:type="oor:string-list">
>                 <value>%origin%/ru_RU_yo_bnx.aff
> %origin%/ru_RU_yo_bnx.dic</value>
>             </prop>
>             <prop oor:name="Format" oor:type="xs:string">
>                 <value>DICT_SPELL</value>
>             </prop>
>             <prop oor:name="Locales" oor:type="oor:string-list">
>                 <value>ru-RU</value>
>             </prop>
>         </node>
>     </node>
>  </node>
> </oor:component-data>
>
> (this means, I have ru_RU_yo being the main dictionary and ru_RU_yo_bnx
> being my personal dictionary with some proper names, trademarks etc that
> I don't deem necessary in the main corpus).

I need this for the same reason.
But this looks very similar to my own dictionaries.xcu.
I'll try to fix that one more time. But I wonder now if the issue comes
from something else.


Best regards,
Olivier

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Re: Many dics for one language

Olivier R.-2
In reply to this post by thomas.lange
Hi Thomas,

Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg a écrit :

> As I understand Dmitri in his private extension does comes along with
> just one standard Russian dictionary and a scientific add-on dictionaries.
> There should be no problem with that since the scientific one should
> just add new words that are *not* already withing the standard dictionary.
>
> And if I need to guess Olivier why you are asking what is the
> difference, it is because you want to know why you are required to have
> three extensions for French.
> If my guess is correct than the answer to that is, that in all of your
> extensions you are providing different versions of a standard French
> dictionary. We may call them base dictionaries.
> Non of them is just a add-on dictionaries. Your dictionaries should
> basically cover the same set of words but with different writing-styles.
> In that case technically they could be in the same extension, but what
> will happen is that OOo makes use of all of them at the same time and
> accepting any word that is correct in at least one of them. Thus
> essentially allowing for all three writing-styles at the same time.
> I think that is not what you want. And in order to let the user make a
> choice you had to provide them as different extensions.

You are absolutely right. :)
Unless on day there will be the possibility to switch between
dictionaries within one extension, there will always be 3 French extensions.


 > Please correct me if I misunderstood something.

But I was asking about this only for my personal usage also, for I have
a personal dictionary with affixes I would like to add to the base
dictionary. This is what I used to do with OOo2.


Best regards,
Olivier

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Re: Many dics for one language

Дмитрий Габинский
In reply to this post by Olivier R.-2
Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:32:30 +0200, "Olivier R." <[hidden email]> skribis:

> You should have a look in a French slang dictionary ;)

Oops, even my universal dictionary cites some meaning I did not intend to
express :(

> "je vous embrasse" or "je vous salue" are better.

Eh bien, je vous embrasse :)

Best regards,

Dmitri Gabinski
     


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Re: Many dics for one language

Mathias Bauer
In reply to this post by Дмитрий Габинский
Dmitri Gabinski wrote:

> Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:58:33 +0200, Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 -
> Hamburg <[hidden email]> skribis:
>
>> Do you mean a single extension?
>
> Yes, I've given some more details in my answer to Olivier's message.
>
>> Just of curiosity I had a look into the code and I think it should work
>> as well if they are into separate extensions as long as the node names
>> for the dictionary files in the configuration do differ...
>
> Ah, good then. However, if different dictionaries are developed by different
> teams without coordination, they may use node names they find intuitive
> which may coincide.

If people outside the core developer cycle want to provide an
extensions, I recommend to use the reversed domain schema notation. If
e.g. you are employed by company "linguprovider" in Russia that has the
domain linguprovider.ru you could name your node

"ru.linguprovider.grabinski.dict_ru"

This should help to avoid name clashes. If your company was too big to
make you feel comfortable with being the only "Grabinski", you could add
more "namespaces", e.g.

"ru.linguprovider.division1.grabinski.dict_ru"

Just break it down to a level where you think you can arrange everything
easily.

If you are doing your dictionary just as a private person you can use
your own domain or your e-mail address etc. This should help to keep the
probability of name clashes low.

Regards,
Mathias

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Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
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