Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

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Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

KAMI911
Hi OpenOffice.org Fans!

Are there any way to mirror our Premium builds on OpenOffice.org site?
Or can someone mirror it to other sites?

Thaks,
KAMI

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Re: Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

Pavel Janík
   From: KAMI <[hidden email]>
   Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 22:23:59 +0200

Hi,

   > Are there any way to mirror our Premium builds on OpenOffice.org site?
   > Or can someone mirror it to other sites?

have you already cleared the license issues? IIRC several people notified
you that it contains non-free stuff and as such ...
--
Pavel Janík

Test input for validity and plausibility.
                  -- The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher)

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Re: Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

KAMI911
Pavel Janík írta:

>    From: KAMI <[hidden email]>
>    Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 22:23:59 +0200
>
> Hi,
>
>    > Are there any way to mirror our Premium builds on OpenOffice.org site?
>    > Or can someone mirror it to other sites?
>
> have you already cleared the license issues? IIRC several people notified
> you that it contains non-free stuff and as such ...
>  
Hello Pavel!
The license issues under eliminating :o) The templates that seem
problematic is undel LGPL or PDL... I will check files from
OpenOffice.org EXTRAS CD (that downloadable from Openoffice.org) but
they use ooextras, openoffice.org stuffs so the are free. Fonts are
free, Clip arts are free, Cisco clip arts free but aganist for
alteration. Samples and Documents (tutorials) are free. Please check the
attached mails. Could you share with us your opinion?

Thnaks,
KAMI

On Friday 28 April 2006 21:59, KamiHír wrote:

> Petr Mladek írta:
> > On Sunday 23 April 2006 18:43, KamiHír wrote:
> >> As you probably know there is an enhanced version of OpenOffice.org
> >> called OpenOffice.org Premium.
> >> You can download from here:
> >> ftp://ftp.fsf.hu/OpenOffice.org_hu/devel/OOB680_m5_Premium/
> >> http://ftp.fsf.hu/OpenOffice.org_hu/devel/OOB680_m5_Premium/
> >> (for Linux and Windows in English and Hungarian)
> >>
> >> Can someone organize English templates to me? I am uploading the zip
> >> file (with templates and empty folders) here:
> >> w3.enternet.hu/szalaik/download/TEMPLATES1-en-US.zip
>
> Dear Petr!
>
> Nice to hear you! So I did not steal anything, I just downloaded the
> collection of:
I did not say that you had stolen the things. I just said that we must not
distribute it if we are not sure about the license.

> http://www.prooo-box.org/
> http://ooextras.sourceforge.net/
> and
> http://documentation.openoffice.org/Samples_Templates/User/template_2_x/ind
>ex.html
> ftp://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/iso/en/ooo_201
>_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso

(Michael, there is a summary for you at the end ;-)

I looked at these sites and it looks like:

TEMPLATES1-en-US.zip:/en-US/source/simpress seems to be taken from
http://ooextras.sourceforge.net/ and are covered under LGPL


TEMPLATES1-en-US.zip:/en-US/source/english are taken from
prooo-box_2.0.2-1.iso:templates/english. The license is inside each template.
In fact, they seem to be taken from http://ooextras.sourceforge.net/. They are
under LGPL.


TEMPLATES1-en-US.zip:/en-US/source/misc are takes from
prooo-box_2.0.2-1.iso:templates/misc. There is the README file that says that
they are taken from http://ooextras.sourceforge.net/ and are under LGPL.


Some of the templates directly below TEMPLATES1-en-US.zip:/en-US/source/ are
taken from
http://documentation.openoffice.org/Samples_Templates/User/template_2_x/index.html.
Maybe, all of them? I has not found the license as well. I am afraid that it
is not defined. We would need to ask Scott Carr <[hidden email]>. I  
could do it if you want.


TEMPLATES1-en-US.zip:/en-US/source/Template are taken from
ftp://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/iso/en/ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso

Hmm, there are some license files in
ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso:/licenses/. Though, there is not said
that the license files apply for all files. And they do not apply beause
there are sources with a different license, for example:
ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso:/dictionaries/lt_LT.zip (BSD)
ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso:/Clip Art (Public Domain)


Note that if you open for example
TEMPLATES1-en-US.zip:/en-US/source/Templates/Biz_Financial/Balance Sheet.ots
or alternatively
ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso:/Templates/Biz_Financial/Balance
Sheet.ots

You can see:

--- cut ---
© 2000 Sun Microsystems, Inc. for its contributors. All rights reserved.
© 2000 Embellix for its contributors. All rights reserved.

For more Embellix Temapltes that works with StarOffice, visit
www.templatezone.com/staroffice
Visit the Staroffice web site at www.sun.com/products/staroffice
--- cut ---

Well, this template would be free these days. Though, we need to found/get a
written permissions.



Summary:

1. We can use the templates from http://ooextras.sourceforge.net/ because they
are under LGPL.
2. We could ignore templates from http://www.prooo-box.org/ because there is
nothing new in compare with ooextras.
3. I could ask Scott Carr <[hidden email]> about the license for
http://documentation.openoffice.org/Samples_Templates
4. I wonder who is responsible for
ftp://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/iso/en/ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso
and who could help us to discover the license. Michael, do you have any idea?



--
Best Regards,

Petr Mladek
software developer
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Hi,

So we come closer to the home of the templates.

It seems that there are other copyrights and other licenses involved.
Has Scott been made aware of Petr's findings?

I have not looked at the files in question but would recommend  to do so
to avoid any misunderstandings...

Greetings
Stefan

KamiHír wrote:

> Hi Masters!
>
> Quoting Scott Carr:
> "
>
> The license of the Samples are PDL for the most part.  The ones that do
> not have a specific license are considered LGPL.
>
> Quoting KamiHír <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hello!
>
> Can you tell me more about the licenses of
> http://documentation.openoffice.org/Samples_Templates
> ?
> I would like to integrate that templates into OpenOffice.org Premium,
> that is a general OpenOffice.org version with more extras.
> The license is same of original, the source of modification are
> available from ftp.fsf.hu...
>
> Thanks,
> KAMI
> "
>
> It is good for us! :o)
>
> Best regards,
> KAMI
>
>
> michael meeks írta:
>
>>Hi Stefan,
>>
>>On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 18:12 +0200, Petr Mladek wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>4. I wonder who is responsible for
>>>ftp://ftp.services.openoffice.org/pub/OpenOffice.org/contrib/iso/en/ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso
>>>and who could help us to discover the license. Michael, do you have any idea?
>>>    
>>>
>>
>> There is some confusion about the licensing of the templates available
>>from services in contrib/ there; can you clarify ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Michael.
>>
>>  
>>
>>>Hmm, there are some license files in
>>>ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso:/licenses/. Though, there is not said
>>>that the license files apply for all files. And they do not apply beause
>>>there are sources with a different license, for example:
>>>ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso:/dictionaries/lt_LT.zip (BSD)
>>>ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso:/Clip Art (Public Domain)
>>>
>>>
>>>Note that if you open for example
>>>TEMPLATES1-en-US.zip:/en-US/source/Templates/Biz_Financial/Balance Sheet.ots
>>>or alternatively
>>>ooo_201_allplatforms_20051222_extras.iso:/Templates/Biz_Financial/Balance
>>>Sheet.ots
>>>
>>>You can see:
>>>
>>>--- cut ---
>>>© 2000 Sun Microsystems, Inc. for its contributors. All rights reserved.
>>>© 2000 Embellix for its contributors. All rights reserved.
>>>
>>>For more Embellix Temapltes that works with StarOffice, visit
>>>www.templatezone.com/staroffice
>>>Visit the Staroffice web site at www.sun.com/products/staroffice
>>>--- cut ---
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>  
>>
>



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Re: Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

Pavel Janík
   From: KAMI <[hidden email]>
   Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 21:48:52 +0200

   > The license issues under eliminating :o) The templates that seem
   > problematic is undel LGPL or PDL... I will check files from
   > OpenOffice.org EXTRAS CD (that downloadable from Openoffice.org) but
   > they use ooextras, openoffice.org stuffs so the are free. Fonts are
   > free, Clip arts are free, Cisco clip arts free but aganist for
   > alteration.

Hmmm. You seem to not distinguish between free and free. I personally do
not care about things that are free (as in free beer) and their license
prohibits me to change them. Such work is useless for me and also for OOo.

I do not like many things on your XXX Premium. I even consider it as unfair
to name something as SomethingElse Premium (which in fact is my primary
reason I won't look at it at all).

For very similar example, have a look at

http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=63805

This issue is about including some kind of fonts into OOo. It is
impossible, because these fonts are non-free. But what we could include is
a generic framework for new font sets inclusion. And we can even include
some free (and license compatible!) fontsets into our (I'm working on
OpenOffice.org) product.

This is what I expect from your work on your OOo distribution. Are you
going this way or you simply bundle everything you have/downloaded from all
around the world into it? Such project is useless in my opinion. Providing
framework to include all these extras file into the running product and/or
into the instset is worth the effort. Simple/manual bundling of everything
into it is not.
--
Pavel Janík

This doesn't mean you should mix false(1) and true(1) editors.
                  -- Ole Aamot in alt.religion.emacs

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Re: Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

Szalai Kálmán
Pavel Janík írta:

>    From: KAMI <[hidden email]>
>    Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 21:48:52 +0200
>
>    > The license issues under eliminating :o) The templates that seem
>    > problematic is undel LGPL or PDL... I will check files from
>    > OpenOffice.org EXTRAS CD (that downloadable from Openoffice.org) but
>    > they use ooextras, openoffice.org stuffs so the are free. Fonts are
>    > free, Clip arts are free, Cisco clip arts free but aganist for
>    > alteration.
>  
Hello!
> Hmmm. You seem to not distinguish between free and free.
If we want to license something really free we should do it under BSD
license :o) Of course the LGPL (or like) licenses serve best the
community. In the point of users I thing the main percent of users won't
change, alter the resources (cliparts and fonts)... Of course some of
them migh want to change something, but they can connect the original
author for permission. In the other hand alteration is something to do
on existing thing. You might copy it in new name  the you can change it.
In the case of Cisco cliparts - I agreed with Cisco - they have a well
know and widely used sign set. If I were Cisco I doesn't want to someone
to change my sets - create a new - incompatible figure... Do you? You
can use it to create a new one on different name...
>  I personally do
> not care about things that are free (as in free beer) and their license
> prohibits me to change them. Such work is useless for me and also for OOo.
>  
Why do you want to change cliparts? Fonts? Why don't you create a new
one? Or a derivate? Also you can always ask the author to help out
you... I understand that the world should be free but it isn't.. We  
should admit the others they think different.
> I do not like many things on your XXX Premium.
Wow... Can you explain it? I would like to suit to your directives.
>  I even consider it as unfair
> to name something as SomethingElse Premium (which in fact is my primary
> reason I won't look at it at all).
>  
The name was my decision. Sorry. I wanted a name that says it contains
more than vanilla OpenOffice.org. I selected a way like other software:
nero premium, ms office professional, windows xp professional and
others. The base of this product is same as OpenOffice.org. I just added
some extras. The Hungarian team builded it on same machines as original
OpenOffice.org. Of course I am open to your ideas about the name of
product. And the user response is excellent. There are many user that
only installs the next version of OpenOffice.org after Premium released
(for the reason of internal testing it appear 5-10 days later than the
original)... Of course the installs OpenOffice.org Premium... We
relaised more than 20000 downloads on different sites for 2.0.2, and I
didn't counted the main donwload site numbers (it hasn't got stats for
downloads) at fsf.hu... The OpenOffice.org Premium has been released on
three IT mags' DVD encloses... So in my opinion it is that what the
users want. Of course the most important is OpenOffice.org, but the
users like the additional content. If you compare the main office
suites, the default installation CD contains lots of extras... Moreover
Microsoft offers more extras on its site.

> For very similar example, have a look at
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=63805
>
> This issue is about including some kind of fonts into OOo. It is
> impossible, because these fonts are non-free. But what we could include is
> a generic framework for new font sets inclusion. And we can even include
> some free (and license compatible!) fontsets into our (I'm working on
> OpenOffice.org) product.
>  
I don't want to include something if it is not good to us. But I am
waiting for the help to community to enhance the Openoffice.org user
experience :o) I would include the useful things... (If you look DejaVu
fonts and Fontwork gallery already included)... I want a same
progression with other parts of Premium package...
> This is what I expect from your work on your OOo distribution. Are you
> going this way or you simply bundle everything you have/downloaded from all
> around the world into it?
I would like to include useful things. I only included that seem to me
useful. Of course the current situation is a little bit changed. I would
like to make it to available in more languages... enus, de on the way,
but I do not know what is useful for that languages. So mere help need
:o) Of course I can do CZ version if you want :o) But please understand
- I my term - the office application is far more than the just the
applications. We can vote the users...
>  Such project is useless in my opinion. Providing
> framework to include all these extras file into the running product and/or
> into the instset is worth the effort. Simple/manual bundling of everything
> into it is not.
>  
The framework is ready. You can review the diff files of OpenOffice.org.
All of Premium's modification is providing a perfect (or near) and
seamless integration into original OpenOffice.org's source...
So it is not just a simple/manual building, it is a way where we can
move -- if we want bundle more useful extras... If we want...


Thanks,
KAMI

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Re: Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

Charles-H. Schulz
Hello all,

(cutting the previous thread for the sake of clarity).
I wish to appease this debate but weigh in it as well. While it's true
that OpenOffice.org "Premium" is a rather unfortunate name in a
marketing sense (it really sounds like something you actually pay), and
while I certainly see the advantages of bundling OOo with extra fonts
and templates, I wonder what you do concerning the promotion of the
actual OpenOffice.org software in Hungary.

Please take no offense in this. But it's really a question I would like
to ask. By stressing on the "Premium" rather than on OpenOffice.org
itself, you may end up harming the actual software's image more than
anything else. It's of course a discussion you should have inside the
Hungarian-speaking OOo community. And by the way, how does all this fit
in the overall community works of the HU community? How do you sort out
the licensing issues?

I certainly appreciate your dissemination work, but maybe a better
mutual understanding should be necessary here.

Best Regards,
Charles-H. Schulz,
Lead of the Native-Language Confederation,
OpenOffice.org .

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Re: Mirroring OpenOffice.org Premium

KAMI911
Hi Gurus!

Charles-H. Schulz írta:
> Hello all,
>
> (cutting the previous thread for the sake of clarity).
> I wish to appease this debate but weigh in it as well.
:o) It is not a cruel debate :o)
> While it's true that OpenOffice.org "Premium" is a rather unfortunate
> name in a marketing sense (it really sounds like something you
> actually pay),
The "Premium" word  is something better in my world ... But I am open
for any cool name suggestion...
> and while I certainly see the advantages of bundling OOo with extra
> fonts and templates
me too and other users too
> , I wonder what you do concerning the promotion of the actual
> OpenOffice.org software in Hungary.
The promotion is coordinated by FSF.hu Foundation. They for to spread
free softwares in Hungary including OpenOffice.org. I try to do my best
and I communicate with the Hungarian media about OpenOffice.org. There
is not to much progression here. We haven't got money to advertise our
free world in wide, but lots of media get informed about OpenOffice.org
related news. All of IT related mags release our news, the suite is in
the printed medias' DVD/CD set. Over the IT mags we haven't too big
name. They are not interested in... With the Get legal campaign I would
like to create some posters to make Openoffice.org more known. Of course
I will discuss it with András Tímár (our lead)... That's all...
>
> Please take no offense in this.
Oh, I am not :o) We just talking about - in my opinion - something cool :o)
> But it's really a question I would like to ask. By stressing on the
> "Premium" rather than on OpenOffice.org itself,
I don't want to hurt the image of OpenOffice.org via OpenOffice.org
Premium. Instead of this we prefer OpenOffice.org and we provide
additional link to download OpenOffice.org Premium... The all
hu.openoffice.org is about Openoffice.org not from Premium... Evry
communication tals about OpenOffice.org not from Premium... So we (or I)
do not harm OOo downloads moreover we can collect more user for
OpenOffice.org with Premium...
> you may end up harming the actual software's image more than anything
> else. It's of course a discussion you should have inside the
> Hungarian-speaking OOo community. And by the way, how does all this
> fit in the overall community works of the HU community?
Contributors have created Slackware, UHU (Hungarian Linux variant),
Gentoo packages for Premium, the users like the idea of bundled
extras... The our community members were sceptic about success but the
voice of people was quite demonstarative. It is high time to did same
with you :o) What more can we do? Yes, we can create more language
versions (en-US and de for 2.0.3) with the help of OOo community and try
to push it into the main branch (with the help of OOo community)
> How do you sort out the licensing issues?
I try to take over the licence issues. I am not sure it is a real
problem concernind OpenOffice.org. I have agreement from aouthors to use
it Openoffice.org freely...
>
> I certainly appreciate your dissemination work, but maybe a better
> mutual understanding should be necessary here.
Right :o)

>
> Best Regards,
> Charles-H. Schulz,
> Lead of the Native-Language Confederation,
> OpenOffice.org .
>
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>
Thanks,
KAMI

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