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Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Oliver Brinzing
Hi,

I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it crashes writer.

Regards

Oliver
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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Thorsten Ziehm-2
Hi,

yes it's a crash, but it seems it isn't a stopper issue. It's an older
issue, because it could be reproduced in OOo 3.2 too. Therefore one main
requirements for a showstopper [1] isn't fulfilled.

Regards,
   Thorsten

[1]: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Showstopper


Am 20.11.2010 11:33, schrieb Oliver Brinzing:
> Hi,
>
> I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it crashes writer.
>
> Regards
>
> Oliver

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Raphael Bircher
  Am 20.11.10 13:52, schrieb Thorsten Ziehm:
> Hi,
>
> yes it's a crash, but it seems it isn't a stopper issue. It's an older
> issue, because it could be reproduced in OOo 3.2 too. Therefore one main
> requirements for a showstopper [1] isn't fulfilled.
Sure, it is... crash is crash, and it's a showstoper. The point that
thes issue is not a regression between 3.2.1 and 3.3 is NOT valid in
this point.

+1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper

>
> [1]: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Showstopper
>
>
> Am 20.11.2010 11:33, schrieb Oliver Brinzing:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it
>> crashes writer.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Oliver
>
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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Renzo Bianchi
Il 20/11/2010 14.06, Raphael Bircher ha scritto:

> +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper

I fear that OOo 3.3 will be released after the end of the world :-)

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Ferry Toth-3
Let's not forget that OO 3.21 is already pretty good.

There is no reason to release anything that is less good.

Let's be patient.

Ferry

Op zaterdag 20-11-2010 om 14:12 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Renzo
Bianchi:
> Il 20/11/2010 14.06, Raphael Bircher ha scritto:
>
> > +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper
>
> I fear that OOo 3.3 will be released after the end of the world :-)
>



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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Raphael Bircher
In reply to this post by Renzo Bianchi
  Am 20.11.10 14:12, schrieb Renzo Bianchi:
> Il 20/11/2010 14.06, Raphael Bircher ha scritto:
>
>> +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper
>
> I fear that OOo 3.3 will be released after the end of the world :-)
>
Yes, me too, but is this a excuse to release a software with knowing
crashs? And this is not the only issue.

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Olaf Felka-2
In reply to this post by Raphael Bircher
Howdy,

On 11/20/10 14:06, Raphael Bircher wrote:
> Am 20.11.10 13:52, schrieb Thorsten Ziehm:
>> Hi,
>>
>> yes it's a crash, but it seems it isn't a stopper issue. It's an older
>> issue, because it could be reproduced in OOo 3.2 too. Therefore one main
>> requirements for a showstopper [1] isn't fulfilled.
> Sure, it is... crash is crash, and it's a showstoper. The point that
> thes issue is not a regression between 3.2.1 and 3.3 is NOT valid in
> this point.

Yes it's crash. But for me it's not a "it is a crash in main
functionality". It's present since 3.2 and hasn't been raised since
then. And in this sense 'not a regression' is a valid point.

Groetjes
Olaf



>
> +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper
>>
>> [1]: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Showstopper
>>
>>
>> Am 20.11.2010 11:33, schrieb Oliver Brinzing:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it
>>> crashes writer.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Oliver
>>
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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Carlo Strata
In reply to this post by Raphael Bircher
Il 20/11/2010 14:06, Raphael Bircher ha scritto:
> Am 20.11.10 13:52, schrieb Thorsten Ziehm:
>> Hi,
>>
>> yes it's a crash, but it seems it isn't a stopper issue. It's an older
>> issue, because it could be reproduced in OOo 3.2 too. Therefore one main
>> requirements for a showstopper [1] isn't fulfilled.
> Sure, it is... crash is crash, and it's a showstoper. The point that
> thes issue is not a regression between 3.2.1 and 3.3 is NOT valid in
> this point.

This IS "to speak"!!! We already have 3.2.1 and we don't need a bugged
new version so take your time to fix errors and bugs.

I also think that many regressions could be avoided if trunk and other
branches speak themselves a bit more about reciprocal fixes (I speak
with global mean)!!! This is also quality and we cannot pursue it!

>
> +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper

+1 for me too


>>
>> [1]: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Showstopper

!!!

>>
>>
>> Am 20.11.2010 11:33, schrieb Oliver Brinzing:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it
>>> crashes writer.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Oliver

Have a nice Sunday,

Carlo

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Renzo Bianchi
Il 20/11/2010 14.34, Carlo Strata ha scritto:

> This IS "to speak"!!! We already have 3.2.1 and we don't need a bugged
> new version so take your time to fix errors and bugs.

There are a lot of crash issues that still open from many time (sometime
years). Should be all fixed before 3.3? :-)

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Uwe Altmann-3
Am 20.11.10 14:48, schrieb Renzo Bianchi:
> Il 20/11/2010 14.34, Carlo Strata ha scritto:
>
>> This IS "to speak"!!! We already have 3.2.1 and we don't need a bugged
>> new version so take your time to fix errors and bugs.
>
> There are a lot of crash issues that still open from many time (sometime
> years). Should be all fixed before 3.3? :-)
>

Reproducible crashes ever /should/ be fixed - a crash is normally a prio
1 bug, isn't it?
Other question is if the /can/ be fixed or not - an out of what reason
they can't be fixed.
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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Thorsten Ziehm-2
Hi Uwe,

Am 20.11.2010 15:11, schrieb Uwe Altmann:

> Am 20.11.10 14:48, schrieb Renzo Bianchi:
>> Il 20/11/2010 14.34, Carlo Strata ha scritto:
>>
>>> This IS "to speak"!!! We already have 3.2.1 and we don't need a bugged
>>> new version so take your time to fix errors and bugs.
>>
>> There are a lot of crash issues that still open from many time (sometime
>> years). Should be all fixed before 3.3? :-)
>>
>
> Reproducible crashes ever /should/ be fixed - a crash is normally a prio
> 1 bug, isn't it?

No!

> Other question is if the /can/ be fixed or not - an out of what reason
> they can't be fixed.

Cannot understand this question. :-(

Thorsten

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Thorsten Ziehm-2
In reply to this post by Raphael Bircher
Hi Raphael,

Am 20.11.2010 14:06, schrieb Raphael Bircher:

> Am 20.11.10 13:52, schrieb Thorsten Ziehm:
>> Hi,
>>
>> yes it's a crash, but it seems it isn't a stopper issue. It's an older
>> issue, because it could be reproduced in OOo 3.2 too. Therefore one main
>> requirements for a showstopper [1] isn't fulfilled.
> Sure, it is... crash is crash, and it's a showstoper. The point that
> thes issue is not a regression between 3.2.1 and 3.3 is NOT valid in
> this point.
>
> +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper

Why we agreed in this project on the showstopper criteria[1]? Without
criteria it isn't possible to release a product anytime.

We shouldn't discuss the release criteria in a time, when we are
in stopper mode only and when we are shiping one Release Candidate
after the next one.

If you still want to change the criteria, then you should talk
about this in the next release status meeting.

It's not a question, if this is a stopper or not. It's a question
if "all" crashes which can be fixed, are stoppers for this release!

Thorsten

>> [1]: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Showstopper

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Carlo Strata
In reply to this post by Uwe Altmann-3
Il 20/11/2010 15:11, Uwe Altmann ha scritto:
> Am 20.11.10 14:48, schrieb Renzo Bianchi:
>> Il 20/11/2010 14.34, Carlo Strata ha scritto:
>>
>>> This IS "to speak"!!! We already have 3.2.1 and we don't need a bugged
>>> new version so take your time to fix errors and bugs.
>>
>> There are a lot of crash issues that still open from many time (sometime
>> years). Should be all fixed before 3.3? :-)
>>

Yes Renzo: it's time to fix it! It's time to grow, it's time to pursue
Quality, it's time to ask ourself (and admit it) that fixing all that
bugs may result in a better global Quality other than fixed bug code... ;-)

Has someone asked himself how many bugs are regressions and why these
regressions have been appeared and what could we all to drastically
reduce them???!!!

And so (in a new different future) release sooner than today we cannot?

We want to spread OOo (and derived) in professional use? We must follow
in rc releases.

It will be a good Christmas gift to the World an OOo 3.3 very stable and
usable release... We have about a month in front of us!

>
> Reproducible crashes ever /should/ be fixed - a crash is normally a prio
> 1 bug, isn't it?
> Other question is if the /can/ be fixed or not - an out of what reason
> they can't be fixed.

This is a good way to start considering things and take the right decisions.

Carlo

p.s. I'm sorry: in my previous mail I wrote "This is also quality and we
cannot pursue it!", but I obviously mean "This is also quality and we
must pursue it!" ;-)

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Martin Damboldt-3
In reply to this post by Oliver Brinzing
Hi,

this is an ugly issue. It has been introduced during development of the
3.2 releases which has finally been released Feb 2010.

Now, while we are in progress to publish OpenOffice.org 3.3 release
candidate 6, this issue has been reported.

In this very late stage of the 3.3 release, I reject this issue as
stopper for the 3.3.

Martin D.

Am 20.11.10 11:33, schrieb Oliver Brinzing:
> Hi,
>
> I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it crashes writer.
>
> Regards
>
> Oliver

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Renzo Bianchi
Il 20/11/2010 16.05, Martin Damboldt ha scritto:

> In this very late stage of the 3.3 release, I reject this issue as
> stopper for the 3.3.

There will be a version 3.3.1, as usual? Or the next one will be the 3.4?

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

rt-2
In reply to this post by Carlo Strata
  On 11/20/10 14:34, Carlo Strata wrote:

> Il 20/11/2010 14:06, Raphael Bircher ha scritto:
>> Am 20.11.10 13:52, schrieb Thorsten Ziehm:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> yes it's a crash, but it seems it isn't a stopper issue. It's an older
>>> issue, because it could be reproduced in OOo 3.2 too. Therefore one
>>> main
>>> requirements for a showstopper [1] isn't fulfilled.
>> Sure, it is... crash is crash, and it's a showstoper. The point that
>> thes issue is not a regression between 3.2.1 and 3.3 is NOT valid in
>> this point.
>
> This IS "to speak"!!! We already have 3.2.1 and we don't need a bugged
> new version so take your time to fix errors and bugs.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree here. We have 3.2 and 3.2.1 and up to
yesterday no one did complain about that crash. It does not seem to
affect so many users, does it? So for me it cannot be a stopper in this
late state of the release cycle.

>
> I also think that many regressions could be avoided if trunk and other
> branches speak themselves a bit more about reciprocal fixes (I speak
> with global mean)!!! This is also quality and we cannot pursue it!
>
>>
>> +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper
>
> +1 for me too
>

-1

Fix it in the next release.

Regards
Rüdiger

>
>>>
>>> [1]: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Showstopper
>
> !!!
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 20.11.2010 11:33, schrieb Oliver Brinzing:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it
>>>> crashes writer.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Oliver
>
> Have a nice Sunday,
>
> Carlo


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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

marcus.lange
Rüdiger Timm wrote:

Hi all,

> Sorry, but I strongly disagree here. We have 3.2 and 3.2.1 and up to
> yesterday no one did complain about that crash. It does not seem to
> affect so many users, does it? So for me it cannot be a stopper in this
> late state of the release cycle.

for me this is the reason not to reject RC 6 and fix this issue for the
next RC.

If we would fix issues like this category then of course we can release
short before Christmas but we wouldn't speak of 2010. ;-)

>>> +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper
>
> -1
>
> Fix it in the next release.

+1 for next release.

My 2 ct.

Marcus



>>>> Am 20.11.2010 11:33, schrieb Oliver Brinzing:
>>>>> I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it
>>>>> crashes writer.



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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Mechtilde Stehmann-2
In reply to this post by rt-2
Hello Rüdiger, *,

Am 20.11.2010 20:59, schrieb Rüdiger Timm:

>  On 11/20/10 14:34, Carlo Strata wrote:
>> Il 20/11/2010 14:06, Raphael Bircher ha scritto:
>>> Am 20.11.10 13:52, schrieb Thorsten Ziehm:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> yes it's a crash, but it seems it isn't a stopper issue. It's an older
>>>> issue, because it could be reproduced in OOo 3.2 too. Therefore one
>>>> main
>>>> requirements for a showstopper [1] isn't fulfilled.
>>> Sure, it is... crash is crash, and it's a showstoper. The point that
>>> thes issue is not a regression between 3.2.1 and 3.3 is NOT valid in
>>> this point.
>>
>> This IS "to speak"!!! We already have 3.2.1 and we don't need a bugged
>> new version so take your time to fix errors and bugs.
>
> Sorry, but I strongly disagree here. We have 3.2 and 3.2.1 and up to
> yesterday no one did complain about that crash. It does not seem to
> affect so many users, does it? So for me it cannot be a stopper in this
> late state of the release cycle.
>
>>
>> I also think that many regressions could be avoided if trunk and other
>> branches speak themselves a bit more about reciprocal fixes (I speak
>> with global mean)!!! This is also quality and we cannot pursue it!
>>
>>>
>>> +1 from me to nominate this issue as stopper
>>
>> +1 for me too
>>
>
> -1
>
> Fix it in the next release.
A Conciliatory Proposal (Vorschlag zur Güte)

fix it in 3.3.1?

Kind regards

Mechtilde

>
> Regards
> Rüdiger
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> [1]: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Showstopper
>>
>> !!!
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 20.11.2010 11:33, schrieb Oliver Brinzing:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like nominate issue 115681 as stopper for OOo 3.3.0, cause it
>>>>> crashes writer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Oliver
>>
>> Have a nice Sunday,
>>
>> Carlo
>
>
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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Oliver Brinzing
Hi Mechtilde,

> A Conciliatory Proposal (Vorschlag zur Güte)
> fix it in 3.3.1?

good idea...

and here is another easy to reproduce crash (presentation):

http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=115688
Crash when hitting Ctrl-Shft-F10 with focus on task pane

Regards

Oliver

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Re: Nominating issue 115681 as stopper for 3.3

Andrea Pescetti
In reply to this post by Thorsten Ziehm-2
On 20/11/2010 Thorsten Ziehm wrote:
> It's not a question, if this is a stopper or not. It's a question
> if "all" crashes which can be fixed, are stoppers for this release!

Yes, and it's also very important to understand that issues that haven't
been fixed yet cannot properly be evaluated in terms of impact on other
parts of the OOo code (these possible "side effects" have long been an
important factor in deciding upon stoppers, but it seem that
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Showstopper ignores them).

I recently reported a trivial Find&Replace bug leading to OOo freeze,
and apparently a reason for Microsoft to bash OOo as you can read in
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=115528 but I can accept
that in the RC phase it's too risky to fix this. I only hope that, as
Mechtilde wrote, all these known crashes/freezes will get the due
attention by 3.3.1!

Regards,
  Andrea Pescetti - Italian N-L Project Lead.


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