Old AOO referencing in Google

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Old AOO referencing in Google

Hagar Delest-2
A user raised this strange result: when performing a Google search with "openoffice download", the 3.4.1 version is the 3rd choice, this tends to present the 3.4.1 version as a not that old one. Is there a way to change that from the AOO site?
See: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=88693

By curiosity, I tried with Bing. The first result is... Office 365! then non official sites and the official one in 5th position only.

Yahoo does not show 3.4.1 (even if the results are rather similar to those from Bing).

Hagar

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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Matthias Seidel
Well, I have a totally different result with google.de, nevertheless I
am in the process to exclude old content on openoffice.org from Googles
search engine.

"Google Search Console" is a nice tool for that although it will take
some time to get satisfying results...

Regards, Matthias


Am 10.05.2017 um 21:07 schrieb Hagar Delest:

> A user raised this strange result: when performing a Google search
> with "openoffice download", the 3.4.1 version is the 3rd choice, this
> tends to present the 3.4.1 version as a not that old one. Is there a
> way to change that from the AOO site?
> See: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=88693
>
> By curiosity, I tried with Bing. The first result is... Office 365!
> then non official sites and the official one in 5th position only.
>
> Yahoo does not show 3.4.1 (even if the results are rather similar to
> those from Bing).
>
> Hagar
>
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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Marcus (OOo)
In reply to this post by Hagar Delest-2
Am 10.05.2017 um 21:07 schrieb Hagar Delest:

> A user raised this strange result: when performing a Google search with
> "openoffice download", the 3.4.1 version is the 3rd choice, this tends
> to present the 3.4.1 version as a not that old one. Is there a way to
> change that from the AOO site?
> See: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=88693
>
> By curiosity, I tried with Bing. The first result is... Office 365! then
> non official sites and the official one in 5th position only.
>
> Yahoo does not show 3.4.1 (even if the results are rather similar to
> those from Bing).

interesting topic. Of course, I've also tried a Google search with
"openoffice download" and got:

- Not a single link to any webpages for a 3.4.1 download (I've only
looksed at the first 5 result pages).

So, there must be something special in the kind of seaching that the
user is doing.

However, it doesn't matter. There is no reason to provide download pages
to offer outdated versions - based on w.oo.o. Of course we cannot
influence what others are offering on their webpages.

I've deleted the webpage that is mentioned in the result page the user
has posted in the screenshot. As soon as Google is re-indexing our
website I expect that this special webpage is recognized as deleted and
therefore no longer in the search results.

HTH

Marcus


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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Simon Phipps-3
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> However, it doesn't matter. There is no reason to provide download pages
> to offer outdated versions - based on w.oo.o. Of course we cannot influence
> what others are offering on their webpages.
>

I disagree. I and users I support have often had reason to download old
versions of software. The most common cause is because they are using an
outdated operating system they can't change for some reason, but sometimes
a feature or a bug of a given version is needed.

There's no need to promote them, but removing them is a mistake.

S.
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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Matthias Seidel
In reply to this post by Marcus (OOo)
Am 10.05.2017 um 23:21 schrieb Marcus:

> Am 10.05.2017 um 21:07 schrieb Hagar Delest:
>> A user raised this strange result: when performing a Google search with
>> "openoffice download", the 3.4.1 version is the 3rd choice, this tends
>> to present the 3.4.1 version as a not that old one. Is there a way to
>> change that from the AOO site?
>> See: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=88693
>>
>> By curiosity, I tried with Bing. The first result is... Office 365! then
>> non official sites and the official one in 5th position only.
>>
>> Yahoo does not show 3.4.1 (even if the results are rather similar to
>> those from Bing).
>
> interesting topic. Of course, I've also tried a Google search with
> "openoffice download" and got:
>
> - Not a single link to any webpages for a 3.4.1 download (I've only
> looksed at the first 5 result pages).
>
> So, there must be something special in the kind of seaching that the
> user is doing.
>
> However, it doesn't matter. There is no reason to provide download
> pages to offer outdated versions - based on w.oo.o. Of course we
> cannot influence what others are offering on their webpages.
>
> I've deleted the webpage that is mentioned in the result page the user
> has posted in the screenshot. As soon as Google is re-indexing our
> website I expect that this special webpage is recognized as deleted
> and therefore no longer in the search results.
Hi Marcus,

If you now choose 3.4.1 in downloads you get an Error 404...
I don't think it should be deleted otherwise the download page must be
updated (legacy releases).

Matthias

>
> HTH
>
> Marcus
>
>
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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Roberto Galoppini-2
In reply to this post by Simon Phipps-3
On Wed, 10 May 2017 at 23:37, Simon Phipps <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > However, it doesn't matter. There is no reason to provide download pages
> > to offer outdated versions - based on w.oo.o. Of course we cannot
> influence
> > what others are offering on their webpages.


Actually the trademark owner can ask third parties to distribute only the
last version, or allow them to distribute older versions as far as links to
the last version are also made available in a prominent way.

>
>
> I disagree. I and users I support have often had reason to download old
> versions of software. The most common cause is because they are using an
> outdated operating system they can't change for some reason, but sometimes
> a feature or a bug of a given version is needed.
>
> There's no need to promote them, but removing them is a mistake.


I agree.

Roberto


>
> S.
>
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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Marcus (OOo)
In reply to this post by Simon Phipps-3
Am 10.05.2017 um 23:37 schrieb Simon Phipps:

> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> However, it doesn't matter. There is no reason to provide download pages
>> to offer outdated versions - based on w.oo.o. Of course we cannot influence
>> what others are offering on their webpages.
>
> I disagree. I and users I support have often had reason to download old
> versions of software. The most common cause is because they are using an
> outdated operating system they can't change for some reason, but sometimes
> a feature or a bug of a given version is needed.

then you should know - as a good Apache OpenOffice supporter - our
download webpage: http://www.openoffice.org/download/index.html

Either just select the old version you need.

Or choose the item "Older releases" if you need a way older version.
Then you can get it - by clicking on the Archive link - from our archive.

Even when you start with Google by searching for "openoffice download
old version" the first search result is the link to our archive.

> There's no need to promote them, but removing them is a mistake.

We don't promote these downloads (where have you read that?) nor was it
linked somewhere on our website. Google is just grabbing everything it
gets for its search index. This is the only reason it's visible in the
results.

Why it is leading to user confusion can be read in the forums post Hagar
has forwarded here. And other users - compared to the forums user -
maybe don't know what the most current version is and think 3.4.1 (or
whatever) is the one they search for and will download it.

So, there is actually a good reason to avoid this.

Marcus


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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Simon Phipps-3
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 11:29 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:


> Or choose the item "Older releases" if you need a way older version. Then
> you can get it - by clicking on the Archive link - from our archive.
>

Except you just deleted the page that the dropdown points to for v3.4.1 -
it just gave me a 404 error.

S.
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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Marcus (OOo)
In reply to this post by Roberto Galoppini-2
Am 11.05.2017 um 00:02 schrieb Roberto Galoppini:

> On Wed, 10 May 2017 at 23:37, Simon Phipps <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> However, it doesn't matter. There is no reason to provide download pages
>>> to offer outdated versions - based on w.oo.o. Of course we cannot
>> influence
>>> what others are offering on their webpages.
>
> Actually the trademark owner can ask third parties to distribute only the
> last version, or allow them to distribute older versions as far as links to
> the last version are also made available in a prominent way.

OK, we can try to influence what others should offer. In the end they
decide on their own if they would follow our advice. But asking is of
course not forbidden.

>> I disagree. I and users I support have often had reason to download old
>> versions of software. The most common cause is because they are using an
>> outdated operating system they can't change for some reason, but sometimes
>> a feature or a bug of a given version is needed.
>>
>> There's no need to promote them, but removing them is a mistake.
>
>
> I agree.
>
> Roberto

Marcus


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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Hagar Delest-2
In reply to this post by Marcus (OOo)
Le 10/05/2017 à 23:21, Marcus a écrit :
> So, there must be something special in the kind of seaching that the user is doing.
>
I tried myself (see screenshot in the forum) with the standard search. So nothing special at all.


> I've deleted the webpage that is mentioned in the result page the user has posted in the screenshot. As soon as Google is re-indexing our website I expect that this special webpage is recognized as deleted and therefore no longer in the search results.
I agree with others that the page itself should be kept to allow the download of older versions. But perhaps there are keywords that can be removed to lower the relevance for a search.
Or perhaps increase the visibility of the archived & legacy versions (quite hidden as a last link at bottom of the additional resources section).

Hagar

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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Simon Phipps-3
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Hagar Delest <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Le 10/05/2017 à 23:21, Marcus a écrit :
>
> I've deleted the webpage that is mentioned in the result page the user has
>> posted in the screenshot. As soon as Google is re-indexing our website I
>> expect that this special webpage is recognized as deleted and therefore no
>> longer in the search results.
>>
> I agree with others that the page itself should be kept to allow the
> download of older versions.


It should be restored ASAP since at the moment it makes the download page
deliver a 404 when v3.4.1 is requested from the dropdown. I've no access
otherwise I'd do it now.


> But perhaps there are keywords that can be removed to lower the relevance
> for a search.
> Or perhaps increase the visibility of the archived & legacy versions
> (quite hidden as a last link at bottom of the additional resources section).


Indeed, that was what I meant by "not promoting". At a minimum the page
should have a prominent warning that the versions in the table are very
old, legacy versions with known security issues and should not be used
unless the user is fully aware of what they are doing. That way anyone
clicking through to it from a search result will be sufficiently warned. We
should just rely on SEO.

S.
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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Marcus (OOo)
In reply to this post by Hagar Delest-2
Am 11.05.2017 um 21:04 schrieb Hagar Delest:

> Le 10/05/2017 à 23:21, Marcus a écrit :
>> So, there must be something special in the kind of seaching that the
>> user is doing.
>>
> I tried myself (see screenshot in the forum) with the standard search.
> So nothing special at all.
>
>
>> I've deleted the webpage that is mentioned in the result page the user
>> has posted in the screenshot. As soon as Google is re-indexing our
>> website I expect that this special webpage is recognized as deleted
>> and therefore no longer in the search results.
> I agree with others that the page itself should be kept to allow the
> download of older versions. But perhaps there are keywords that can be
> removed to lower the relevance for a search.

there is no need to have a single page with a single version. Every
outdated version can be accessed in the archive.

> Or perhaps increase the visibility of the archived & legacy versions
> (quite hidden as a last link at bottom of the additional resources
> section).

Sure, we want to put the newer/newest version forward and not old stuff. ;-)

Marcus


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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Marcus (OOo)
In reply to this post by Matthias Seidel
Am 11.05.2017 um 00:00 schrieb Matthias Seidel:

> Am 10.05.2017 um 23:21 schrieb Marcus:
>> Am 10.05.2017 um 21:07 schrieb Hagar Delest:
>>> A user raised this strange result: when performing a Google search with
>>> "openoffice download", the 3.4.1 version is the 3rd choice, this tends
>>> to present the 3.4.1 version as a not that old one. Is there a way to
>>> change that from the AOO site?
>>> See: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=88693
>>>
>>> By curiosity, I tried with Bing. The first result is... Office 365! then
>>> non official sites and the official one in 5th position only.
>>>
>>> Yahoo does not show 3.4.1 (even if the results are rather similar to
>>> those from Bing).
>>
>> interesting topic. Of course, I've also tried a Google search with
>> "openoffice download" and got:
>>
>> - Not a single link to any webpages for a 3.4.1 download (I've only
>> looksed at the first 5 result pages).
>>
>> So, there must be something special in the kind of seaching that the
>> user is doing.
>>
>> However, it doesn't matter. There is no reason to provide download
>> pages to offer outdated versions - based on w.oo.o. Of course we
>> cannot influence what others are offering on their webpages.
>>
>> I've deleted the webpage that is mentioned in the result page the user
>> has posted in the screenshot. As soon as Google is re-indexing our
>> website I expect that this special webpage is recognized as deleted
>> and therefore no longer in the search results.
>
> If you now choose 3.4.1 in downloads you get an Error 404...
> I don't think it should be deleted otherwise the download page must be
> updated (legacy releases).

the 404 is now gone.

Marcus


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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Simon Phipps-3
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> the 404 is now gone.


But so is the usable table of downloads, which is completely lost. I
believe that is an unwelcome step backwards.

S.
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Re: Old AOO referencing in Google

Marcus (OOo)
Am 11.05.2017 um 22:39 schrieb Simon Phipps:
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> the 404 is now gone.
>
> But so is the usable table of downloads, which is completely lost. I
> believe that is an unwelcome step backwards.

feel free to add a new webpage. OK, honestly there is no need to point
to a *single page* with a *single version*. When you want to be
consistent then you have to create pages for every version bewtween
3.4.1 and 4.1.2. ;-)

Marcus


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