OpenOffice is it a community

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OpenOffice is it a community

Rob Clement-3
I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and wonder
what others think of these events

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE

Thanks

Rob

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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Alexandro Colorado-3
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Rob Clement <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and wonder
> what others think of these events
>
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob
>
>
Does that means Oracle is taking control on the user contributions A.k.a
budget, destined to the community, but now is wholy oracle's property to
decide where to use it?

--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

David B Teague-3
In reply to this post by Rob Clement-3
On 10/20/2010 12:54 PM, Rob Clement wrote:
> I bring to the attention of this group an article from
> ZDNet and wonder what others think of these events
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE 
>
>

Thanks, Rob. Orcacle's purging of TDF folk is quite
disappointing. I hope something causes them to rethink this
action. I'm still waiting for ... What? I don't know. I hope
I know when I hear or read it.
--David



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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Christian Lippka
In reply to this post by Alexandro Colorado-3
Hi Alexandro,

Am 20.10.2010 19:03, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:

> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Rob Clement<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and wonder
>> what others think of these events
>>
>>
>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
> Does that means Oracle is taking control on the user contributions A.k.a
> budget, destined to the community, but now is wholy oracle's property to
> decide where to use it?

If you do read the actual log and not only the press postings you will
find that stuff like

"Later in the transcript, he admitted “I only see Cor Nouws, Christoph
Noack and Olivier Hallot as the community members and all other are now
Oracle employees so I take it as Oracle wants us to get out.”

is just not true, in the mentioned log you will find

"(20:49:36) paveljanik: I (maybe I'm naive) expect that people with
"conflict of interest" will automatically step down."

You may know that Pavel is not an Oracle employee.

The TDF is already doing one thing very well, using the press to
their advantage. It is called propaganda for a reason.

So who is the merchant of doubt which will harm our project?
I already know that at least one of them will answer to my
mail and tell the world it is Oracle.

Regards,
Christian

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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Alexandro Colorado-3
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Christian Lippka <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Alexandro,
>
> Am 20.10.2010 19:03, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>
>  On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Rob Clement<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>  I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and wonder
>>> what others think of these events
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>  Does that means Oracle is taking control on the user contributions A.k.a
>> budget, destined to the community, but now is wholy oracle's property to
>> decide where to use it?
>>
>
> If you do read the actual log and not only the press postings you will
> find that stuff like
>
> "Later in the transcript, he admitted “I only see Cor Nouws, Christoph
> Noack and Olivier Hallot as the community members and all other are now
> Oracle employees so I take it as Oracle wants us to get out.”
>
> is just not true, in the mentioned log you will find
>
> "(20:49:36) paveljanik: I (maybe I'm naive) expect that people with
> "conflict of interest" will automatically step down."
>
> You may know that Pavel is not an Oracle employee.
>
> The TDF is already doing one thing very well, using the press to
> their advantage. It is called propaganda for a reason.
>
> So who is the merchant of doubt which will harm our project?
> I already know that at least one of them will answer to my
> mail and tell the world it is Oracle.
>

So who is taking control of the budget? I heard that Cor and other community
members were pushed aside from their budget approver positions and replaced
by an Oracle employee.

This was not on the press release, yet still support the idea of taking
control of the contributors donations for the community and not oracle.



>
> Regards,
> Christian
>
>
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--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Martin Hollmichel-3
  Am 20.10.2010 19:47, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
> So who is taking control of the budget? I heard that Cor and other community
> members were pushed aside from their budget approver positions and replaced
> by an Oracle employee.
>
no, replaced by an board member of Team OpenOffice.org e.V.

Team OpenOffice.org e.V. is an German non profit organization which
worked with the OpenOffice.org Community Council to administrate the
budget of OpenOffice.org. Legaly bound to OpenOffice.org. Not
LibreOffice. Has nothing to do with Oracle at all. see
http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2702 
for details.

Martin


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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Alexandro Colorado-3
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Martin Hollmichel <[hidden email]>wrote:

>  Am 20.10.2010 19:47, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>
>  So who is taking control of the budget? I heard that Cor and other
>> community
>> members were pushed aside from their budget approver positions and
>> replaced
>> by an Oracle employee.Michael
>>
>

Hi  Martin:


>>  no, replaced by an board member of Team OpenOffice.org e.V.
>


Is that board member also an oracle employee?


>
> Team OpenOffice.org e.V. is an German non profit organization which worked
> with the OpenOffice.org Community Council to administrate the budget of
> OpenOffice.org. Legaly bound to OpenOffice.org. Not LibreOffice. Has nothing
> to do with Oracle at all. see
> http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2702 for
> details.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
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--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Pavel Janík
> Is that board member also an oracle employee?

Are you of a people kind? You know, these People kill people...
--
Pavel Janík



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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Alexandro Colorado-3
2010/10/20 Pavel Janík <[hidden email]>

> Is that board member also an oracle employee?
>>
>
> Are you of a people kind? You know, these People kill people...
>

Sorry dont get your answer. Is a simple binary answer.


> --
> Pavel Janík
>
>
>
>
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--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Martin Hollmichel-3
In reply to this post by Alexandro Colorado-3
Am 20.10.2010 20:06, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:

> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Martin Hollmichel<[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>>   Am 20.10.2010 19:47, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>>
>>   So who is taking control of the budget? I heard that Cor and other
>>> community
>>> members were pushed aside from their budget approver positions and
>>> replaced
>>> by an Oracle employee.Michael
>>>
> Hi  Martin:
>
>
>>>   no, replaced by an board member of Team OpenOffice.org e.V.
>
> Is that board member also an oracle employee?
yes, but in doubt Law weighs higher than a workers contract. I know that
you'd love see Oracle behind this, but I have to disappoint you.

Martin

>
>> Team OpenOffice.org e.V. is an German non profit organization which worked
>> with the OpenOffice.org Community Council to administrate the budget of
>> OpenOffice.org. Legaly bound to OpenOffice.org. Not LibreOffice. Has nothing
>> to do with Oracle at all. see
>> http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2702 for
>> details.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>


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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Alexandro Colorado-3
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Martin Hollmichel <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Am 20.10.2010 20:06, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>
>  On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Martin Hollmichel<[hidden email]
>> >wrote:
>>
>>   Am 20.10.2010 19:47, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>>>
>>>  So who is taking control of the budget? I heard that Cor and other
>>>
>>>> community
>>>> members were pushed aside from their budget approver positions and
>>>> replaced
>>>> by an Oracle employee.Michael
>>>>
>>>>  Hi  Martin:
>>
>>
>>   no, replaced by an board member of Team OpenOffice.org e.V.
>>>>
>>>
>> Is that board member also an oracle employee?
>>
> yes, but in doubt Law weighs higher than a workers contract. I know that
> you'd love see Oracle behind this, but I have to disappoint you.
>

Hi Martin, it seems that pavel and you are chatting privately about my
conspiracies against me before I can conspire against oracle. Wow I thought
this only happened on the global warming deniers versus climategate debates.


So before you completely try to discredit me before I can reach a
conclusion, this is not helping me to reach to a fair conclusion. Is like
the saying, they wouldnt put so much effort if it wasn't true. OOo Infowars.


>
> Martin
>
>
>
>>  Team OpenOffice.org e.V. is an German non profit organization which
>>> worked
>>> with the OpenOffice.org Community Council to administrate the budget of
>>> OpenOffice.org. Legaly bound to OpenOffice.org. Not LibreOffice. Has
>>> nothing
>>> to do with Oracle at all. see
>>> http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2702for
>>> details.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Martin Hollmichel-3
http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=budget&msgNo=265

Am 20.10.2010 20:28, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:

> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Martin Hollmichel<[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Am 20.10.2010 20:06, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>>
>>   On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Martin Hollmichel<[hidden email]
>>>> wrote:
>>>    Am 20.10.2010 19:47, schrieb Alexandro Colorado:
>>>>   So who is taking control of the budget? I heard that Cor and other
>>>>
>>>>> community
>>>>> members were pushed aside from their budget approver positions and
>>>>> replaced
>>>>> by an Oracle employee.Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>   Hi  Martin:
>>>
>>>    no, replaced by an board member of Team OpenOffice.org e.V.
>>> Is that board member also an oracle employee?
>>>
>> yes, but in doubt Law weighs higher than a workers contract. I know that
>> you'd love see Oracle behind this, but I have to disappoint you.
>>
> Hi Martin, it seems that pavel and you are chatting privately about my
> conspiracies against me before I can conspire against oracle. Wow I thought
> this only happened on the global warming deniers versus climategate debates.
>
>
> So before you completely try to discredit me before I can reach a
> conclusion, this is not helping me to reach to a fair conclusion. Is like
> the saying, they wouldnt put so much effort if it wasn't true. OOo Infowars.
>
>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>>   Team OpenOffice.org e.V. is an German non profit organization which
>>>> worked
>>>> with the OpenOffice.org Community Council to administrate the budget of
>>>> OpenOffice.org. Legaly bound to OpenOffice.org. Not LibreOffice. Has
>>>> nothing
>>>> to do with Oracle at all. see
>>>> http://council.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=2702for
>>>> details.
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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>>
>


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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Pavel Janík
In reply to this post by Alexandro Colorado-3
> Hi Martin, it seems that pavel and you are chatting privately

/me is openly talking to his son to get him into bed NOW ;-)

I swear I did not contacted Martin today, and won't do so even if  
Martin sits into his airplane and knocks on my door!

This is funny, you are funny Alexandro ;-) There is no conspiration  
against you. It is just you who think there is.
--
Pavel Janík



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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Robert Derman-2
In reply to this post by Rob Clement-3
Rob Clement wrote:
> I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and
> wonder what others think of these events
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE 
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob
It tells me that it is time to stop promoting OOo and get behind Libre
Office.  Apparently it is no longer OOo, for OpenOffice.org, but rather
OOO for Oracle Open Office.  I can't see Open Source supporters
supporting a corporate product.  I would have to agree that it would be
best if a lot of corporate users like members of the Fortune 500 went
from MS Office to OOO, it would at least increase adoption of ODF but
for home users, schools etc. it would make much more sense to use and
support LO.

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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Alexandro Colorado-3
In reply to this post by Pavel Janík
2010/10/20 Pavel Janík <[hidden email]>

> Hi Martin, it seems that pavel and you are chatting privately
>>
>
> /me is openly talking to his son to get him into bed NOW ;-)
>
> I swear I did not contacted Martin today, and won't do so even if Martin
> sits into his airplane and knocks on my door!
>
> This is funny, you are funny Alexandro ;-) There is no conspiration against
> you. It is just you who think there is.
>

Right except for your email where you claim I was against Oracle. So
everything I said, is because I have an agenda.



> --
> Pavel Janík
>
>
>
>
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--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Simon Brouwer
In reply to this post by Rob Clement-3
Op 20-10-2010 18:54, Rob Clement schreef:
> I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and
> wonder what others think of these events
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE 
>

"And if that’s the case, then OpenOffice.org is no longer a community
endeavor, but entirely a corporate project."

Wrong conclusion. The OpenOffice.org community does not just consist of
the Community Council.

--

Vriendelijke groet,
Simon Brouwer.

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |


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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Jean-Baptiste Faure-2
Le 20/10/2010 22:43, Simon Brouwer a écrit :

>
> Op 20-10-2010 18:54, Rob Clement schreef:
>> I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and
>> wonder what others think of these events
>>
>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE
>>
>
> "And if that’s the case, then OpenOffice.org is no longer a community
> endeavor, but entirely a corporate project."
>
> Wrong conclusion. The OpenOffice.org community does not just consist
> of the Community Council.
>
No, the conclusion is correct because the Community Council members
which are asked to resign are all elected by the Community.

JBF

--
Jean-Baptiste Faure
French N-L project Lead
http://fr.openoffice.org

Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.




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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Simon Brouwer
Op 21-10-2010 6:20, Jean-Baptiste Faure schreef:

> Le 20/10/2010 22:43, Simon Brouwer a écrit :
>> Op 20-10-2010 18:54, Rob Clement schreef:
>>> I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and
>>> wonder what others think of these events
>>>
>>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE
>>>
>> "And if that’s the case, then OpenOffice.org is no longer a community
>> endeavor, but entirely a corporate project."
>>
>> Wrong conclusion. The OpenOffice.org community does not just consist
>> of the Community Council.
>>
> No, the conclusion is correct because the Community Council members
> which are asked to resign are all elected by the Community.
*All* CC members (except one) are elected by the Community, see the CC
charter: http://council.openoffice.org/councilcharter12.html. So it is
not just the members who have been asked to resign who represent the
community. As for me, I don't remember ever having voted for non-Oracle
employed candidates specifically. IMO the distinction between Oracle
employed and non-Oracle employed community members is not as clear-cut
as it is made out to be.

Also, if all CC members were Oracle employees (still not the case anyway
if all TDF founders in it would step down) would it then follow that the
non-Oracle employed contributors to OpenOffice.org, such as I, would
suddenly not be involved in the project anymore?

--

Vriendelijke groet,
Simon Brouwer.

| http://nl.openoffice.org | http://www.opentaal.org |


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Re: OpenOffice is it a community

Mathias Bauer
In reply to this post by Jean-Baptiste Faure-2
On 10/21/2010 06:20 AM, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote:

> Le 20/10/2010 22:43, Simon Brouwer a écrit :
>>
>> Op 20-10-2010 18:54, Rob Clement schreef:
>>> I bring to the attention of this group an article from ZDNet and
>>> wonder what others think of these events
>>>
>>> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-purging-openofficeorg-community-council/7575?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE
>>>
>>
>> "And if that’s the case, then OpenOffice.org is no longer a community
>> endeavor, but entirely a corporate project."
>>
>> Wrong conclusion. The OpenOffice.org community does not just consist
>> of the Community Council.
>>
> No, the conclusion is correct because the Community Council members
> which are asked to resign are all elected by the Community.

Their leading position in TDF/LO and OOo might bring them into conflicts
of interest (see below), so it is a valid request to ask them to choose
in which project they want to take a lead. Contributing to LO/TDF is no
problem even for a council member (at the end every contributor to OOo
also contributes to LO as they will use our code as a stone pit ;-)),
but being a *lead* in both project most probably won't fit.

IMHO all people that currently have a lead in both projects should
answer these questions:

(1) If a member of the OOo community asks you, which of the projects
(s)he should support (if time does not permits to support both), what is
your answer?

(2) If users, organizations etc. will ask you, which product they shall
use, what is your answer?

(3) Developers ask you if they shall contribute to LO only or to both
projects, what is your answer? Or moreover, if a developer that
contributed to LO doesn't ask, do you suggest that he should contribute
to OOo also?

If the answer won't be "OOo, OOo, both/yes", I think that it is time to
step back from leading positions in the OOo community, as this would be
the answer that can be expected from a project lead or council member of
OOo. Everything else will create confusion or even frustration in our
community that will hurt it.

Besides that: I'm sure that we will see new elections for the community
council seats. So everything that happens there is only a temporary
constellation.

Regards,
Mathias

--
Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
OpenOffice.org Engineering at Oracle: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
Please don't reply to "[hidden email]".
I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it.

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