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OpenOffice

iamsuhailansari
Hi
     TheASF has lots of important projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop etc. I
think that TheASF should either work with the document foundation or donate
open office trademarks to the document foundation because you already have
big active communities working in various projects and new projects like
netbeans will be part of TheASF very soon, donating trademark to the
document foundation will allow you to focus on important projects like
netbeans, tomcat etc.

Suhail Ansari
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Re: OpenOffice

Jörg Schmidt-2
Hello,

> From: Suhail Ansari [mailto:[hidden email]]

>      TheASF has lots of important projects such as Tomcat,
> Hadoop etc. I
> think that TheASF should either work with the document
> foundation or donate
> open office trademarks to the document foundation

-1

The TDF has forked OpenOffice, not the ASF. OpenOffice is the original and not LibreOffice.


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: OpenOffice

Damjan Jovanovic
In reply to this post by iamsuhailansari
-1

The AOO community doesn't necessarily participate in "Tomcat, Hadoop,
etc.", and won't necessarily start if AOO is closed down.

On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Suhail Ansari <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi
>      TheASF has lots of important projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop etc. I
> think that TheASF should either work with the document foundation or donate
> open office trademarks to the document foundation because you already have
> big active communities working in various projects and new projects like
> netbeans will be part of TheASF very soon, donating trademark to the
> document foundation will allow you to focus on important projects like
> netbeans, tomcat etc.
>
> Suhail Ansari
>
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Re: OpenOffice

Peter Kovacs
-1, for donation of Marketing right. Thats not helping anyone. And will
only confuse people. Not everybody is happy with the TDF on User side.
+1 for Cooperation. But imho TDF is not interested.
We are openly decleared dead. This is a clear sign that the Open Document
Foundation is not interested in any cooperation.

So you should start your demands at their side. If they stop declearing us
dead you made a step in the direction of cooperation.
However to be clear the way to stop the stupidity is a long road from there.

Good Luck.

All the best
Peter



2017-05-07 15:06 GMT+02:00 Damjan Jovanovic <[hidden email]>:

> -1
>
> The AOO community doesn't necessarily participate in "Tomcat, Hadoop,
> etc.", and won't necessarily start if AOO is closed down.
>
> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Suhail Ansari <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >      TheASF has lots of important projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop etc. I
> > think that TheASF should either work with the document foundation or
> donate
> > open office trademarks to the document foundation because you already
> have
> > big active communities working in various projects and new projects like
> > netbeans will be part of TheASF very soon, donating trademark to the
> > document foundation will allow you to focus on important projects like
> > netbeans, tomcat etc.
> >
> > Suhail Ansari
> >
>
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Re: OpenOffice

Jim Jagielski
In reply to this post by iamsuhailansari
This implies that somehow the ASF, the foundation, allocates resources
towards projects regarding who works where. That's not the case.
It's not like "shutting down" AOO would result in the people
working on it to be "re-assigned" to work on anything else like
Tomcat or whatever, because that is not how the ASF is setup.
People were on what they want, not on what they are "told to"
by the ASF.

> On May 7, 2017, at 7:40 AM, Suhail Ansari <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi
>     TheASF has lots of important projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop etc. I
> think that TheASF should either work with the document foundation or donate
> open office trademarks to the document foundation because you already have
> big active communities working in various projects and new projects like
> netbeans will be part of TheASF very soon, donating trademark to the
> document foundation will allow you to focus on important projects like
> netbeans, tomcat etc.
>
> Suhail Ansari


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Re: OpenOffice

toki
In reply to this post by Peter Kovacs
On 05/07/2017 01:58 PM, Peter Kovacs wrote:

> We are openly declared dead.

It is called evidence based observation.

Specifically, looking at:
* Time taken to fix zero day exploits;
* Code contributions;
* Percentage open bugs/total bugs;
* Release schedule;
* Axillary support;
amongst other data-points;

> So you should start your demands at their side.

For all practical purposes, TDF & LibO ignore both AOo and ASF.

>If they stop declaring us dead, you made a step in the direction of
cooperation.

The most noise about AOo being dead comes from ASF & AOo.

jonathon

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Re: OpenOffice

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Peter Kovacs
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2017 3:58 PM
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice
>
> -1, for donation of Marketing right. Thats not helping
> anyone. And will
> only confuse people. Not everybody is happy with the TDF on User side.
> +1 for Cooperation. But imho TDF is not interested.
> We are openly decleared dead. This is a clear sign that the
> Open Document
> Foundation is not interested in any cooperation.

Yes, you have described the situation correctly. The TDF does not want any cooperation she wants a race in which the loser is OpenOffice.

I personally requested some cooperation of LO about www.ooowiki.de, the reaction at LO was zero, see:
https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/de/discuss/msg20541.html



greetings,
Jörg


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Re: OpenOffice

Dave-5
In reply to this post by iamsuhailansari
-------- Original Message --------
From: Suhail Ansari <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 17:10:48 +0530

> Hi
>      TheASF has lots of important projects such as Tomcat, Hadoop etc. I
> think that TheASF should either work with the document foundation or donate
> open office trademarks to the document foundation because you already have
> big active communities working in various projects and new projects like
> netbeans will be part of TheASF very soon, donating trademark to the
> document foundation will allow you to focus on important projects like
> netbeans, tomcat etc.
>
> Suhail Ansari

Hi Suhail,

Since you are not subscribed to this list you might not be aware that
your proposal has been discussed and dismissed a number of times before.

The fact is that door is now closed and there is (almost) no possibility
of the ASF donating the trademark and/or domain name to The Document
Foundation/ LibreOffice.

As mentioned by others in this thread, very few (if any) contributors to
the Apache OpenOffice project would move their contribution efforts to
other ASF projects, so the overall benefit to the ASF would be something
approaching zero.

While merging the resources of the two projects might seem to be a
sensible and productive move, there is a long standing resistance on
both sides to such a move. Plus the differences between the licensing
philosophies of the two projects will always result in a "/Mexican
Standoff/".

Dave
--
Please address any reply to the mailing list only. Any messages sent to
this noreply@ address are automatically deleted from the server and will
never be read.


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Re: OpenOffice

Peter Kovacs
In reply to this post by toki
>
> For all practical purposes, TDF & LibO ignore both AOo and ASF.
>
Which demonstrates a no interest in Cooperation attitude. Thank you for
pointing that out again.

>If they stop declaring us dead, you made a step in the direction of
> cooperation.
>
> The most noise about AOo being dead comes from ASF & AOo.
>
lol. This has nothing to do with the requirements that would be needed for
a cooperation.
And that was the request.


2017-05-07 19:26 GMT+02:00 toki <[hidden email]>:

> On 05/07/2017 01:58 PM, Peter Kovacs wrote:
>
> > We are openly declared dead.
>
> It is called evidence based observation.
>
> Specifically, looking at:
> * Time taken to fix zero day exploits;
> * Code contributions;
> * Percentage open bugs/total bugs;
> * Release schedule;
> * Axillary support;
> amongst other data-points;
>
> > So you should start your demands at their side.
>
> For all practical purposes, TDF & LibO ignore both AOo and ASF.
>
> >If they stop declaring us dead, you made a step in the direction of
> cooperation.
>
> The most noise about AOo being dead comes from ASF & AOo.
>
> jonathon
>
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ooowiki continuation (was: Re: OpenOffice)

Thorsten Behrens-5
In reply to this post by Jörg Schmidt-2
Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> I personally requested some cooperation of LO about www.ooowiki.de,
> the reaction at LO was zero, see:
> https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/de/discuss/msg20541.html
>
Hi Jörg,

I think at the time of your posting, that topic was somewhat on
hold/stalled. Being 2 months late to a discussion sometimes gets you
no reaction, simply because noone has anything to add (you were
already referencing the original libreoffice de-discuss thread).

If openoffice.info wants to be a stakeholder, we can certainly include
you (or other reps) in the technical discussions.

Perhaps an option to discuss further details would be the upcoming
community meeting of the LibreOffice DE-project (probably on the
weekend June 25th, location TBD)? Let me know if you'd like to be kept
in the loop there.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: ooowiki continuation (was: Re: OpenOffice)

Jörg Schmidt-2
Hello,  

> From: Thorsten Behrens [mailto:[hidden email]]

> I think at the time of your posting, that topic was somewhat on
> hold/stalled. Being 2 months late to a discussion sometimes gets you
> no reaction, simply because noone has anything to add (you were
> already referencing the original libreoffice de-discuss thread).

I think we both know that the reasons are others.
 
> If openoffice.info wants to be a stakeholder, we can certainly include
> you (or other reps) in the technical discussions.

No thanks. de.openoffice.info is an independent forum.

> Perhaps an option to discuss further details would be the upcoming
> community meeting of the LibreOffice DE-project (probably on the
> weekend June 25th, location TBD)? Let me know if you'd like to be kept
> in the loop there.

Thanks, but I'm working for Apache OpenOffice. For my voluntary work that is
enough for me.

But please do not worry, professionally, I also provide support for LibreOffice.

Maybe I would also like to be a participant in the LibreOffice Certification
Program, but I am a free spirit and prerequisites such as a) in:
http://www.documentfoundation.org/assets/Certification/tdf-certificationcodeofcond
uct.pdf

are unfortunately too political for me.
imho: good support requires good professional knowledge, but not the uncritical
commitment to an organization.


greetings,
Jörg


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Re: ooowiki continuation (was: Re: OpenOffice)

Simos Xenitellis-2
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Jörg Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>> From: Thorsten Behrens [mailto:[hidden email]]
>
>> I think at the time of your posting, that topic was somewhat on
>> hold/stalled. Being 2 months late to a discussion sometimes gets you
>> no reaction, simply because noone has anything to add (you were
>> already referencing the original libreoffice de-discuss thread).
>
> I think we both know that the reasons are others.
>
>> If openoffice.info wants to be a stakeholder, we can certainly include
>> you (or other reps) in the technical discussions.
>
> No thanks. de.openoffice.info is an independent forum.
>
>> Perhaps an option to discuss further details would be the upcoming
>> community meeting of the LibreOffice DE-project (probably on the
>> weekend June 25th, location TBD)? Let me know if you'd like to be kept
>> in the loop there.
>
> Thanks, but I'm working for Apache OpenOffice. For my voluntary work that is
> enough for me.
>
> But please do not worry, professionally, I also provide support for LibreOffice.
>
> Maybe I would also like to be a participant in the LibreOffice Certification
> Program, but I am a free spirit and prerequisites such as a) in:
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/assets/Certification/tdf-certificationcodeofcond
> uct.pdf
>
> are unfortunately too political for me.

There are four reasonable points in this PDF. Which one would make it
"too political" for you?

Simos

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Re: ooowiki continuation (was: Re: OpenOffice)

Peter Kovacs
Hello Jörg,

I personally believe that the certificate policy is common business
phrasing. I think it is a good business style to talk positively or not at
all of organisations. You never know what relation ship these people are in.
And worse thing that can happen is that you damage your own renown. Just
think of our libre trolls. They have damaged libre office renown for me in
such a great extent that I do not want to support Libre Office project,
without some commitments from their side. And maybe that's true for them
too.

I would really like to see this spiral of fighting ends. I don't like the
trolls on our Mailing list, trying to steal our freedom, choice and fun.
A cooperation would be nice. The oowiki seems like a good neutral ground to
start.
I am not part of oowiki, but i would really appreciate if it is tryed to
normalize the relationship and not harden up (what's currently happening)
In the end it will only damage both projects.
And from the outside there is a whish that both projects improve their
relationship.

All the best
Peter

Simos Xenitellis <[hidden email]> schrieb am Di., 9. Mai 2017,
08:24:

> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 AM, Jörg Schmidt <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> >> From: Thorsten Behrens [mailto:[hidden email]]
> >
> >> I think at the time of your posting, that topic was somewhat on
> >> hold/stalled. Being 2 months late to a discussion sometimes gets you
> >> no reaction, simply because noone has anything to add (you were
> >> already referencing the original libreoffice de-discuss thread).
> >
> > I think we both know that the reasons are others.
> >
> >> If openoffice.info wants to be a stakeholder, we can certainly include
> >> you (or other reps) in the technical discussions.
> >
> > No thanks. de.openoffice.info is an independent forum.
> >
> >> Perhaps an option to discuss further details would be the upcoming
> >> community meeting of the LibreOffice DE-project (probably on the
> >> weekend June 25th, location TBD)? Let me know if you'd like to be kept
> >> in the loop there.
> >
> > Thanks, but I'm working for Apache OpenOffice. For my voluntary work
> that is
> > enough for me.
> >
> > But please do not worry, professionally, I also provide support for
> LibreOffice.
> >
> > Maybe I would also like to be a participant in the LibreOffice
> Certification
> > Program, but I am a free spirit and prerequisites such as a) in:
> >
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/assets/Certification/tdf-certificationcodeofcond
> > uct.pdf
> >
> > are unfortunately too political for me.
>
> There are four reasonable points in this PDF. Which one would make it
> "too political" for you?
>
> Simos
>
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Re: ooowiki continuation

Thorsten Behrens-5
In reply to this post by Jörg Schmidt-2
Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> > If openoffice.info wants to be a stakeholder, we can certainly include
> > you (or other reps) in the technical discussions.
>
> No thanks. de.openoffice.info is an independent forum.
>
Then I don't get what you're asking for - either you want to be part
of a solution, which usually means participating - or other people do
the work (and then are free to decide on directions)?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: ooowiki continuation (was: Re: OpenOffice)

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Simos Xenitellis-2

> From: Simos Xenitellis [mailto:[hidden email]]

> > Maybe I would also like to be a participant in the
> LibreOffice Certification
> > Program, but I am a free spirit and prerequisites such as a) in:
> >
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/assets/Certification/tdf-cer
> tificationcodeofcond
> > uct.pdf
> >
> > are unfortunately too political for me.
>
> There are four reasonable points in this PDF. Which one would make it
> "too political" for you?

I have written:

"...I am a free spirit and prerequisites _such as a)_ in:..."

And so I mean point a)


Jörg


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Re: ooowiki continuation

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Thorsten Behrens-5
> From: Thorsten Behrens [mailto:[hidden email]]

> Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> > > If openoffice.info wants to be a stakeholder, we can
> certainly include
> > > you (or other reps) in the technical discussions.
> >
> > No thanks. de.openoffice.info is an independent forum.
> >
> Then I don't get what you're asking for - either you want to be part
> of a solution, which usually means participating - or other people do
> the work (and then are free to decide on directions)?

I did not ask for anything, I had made an offer. Not an offer for LibreOffice, but
for ooowiki.de.
Only the owner of ooowiki.de is part of the LO community and so I wrote on the LO
mailing list.


Jörg


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Re: ooowiki continuation (was: Re: OpenOffice)

Simos Xenitellis-2
In reply to this post by Jörg Schmidt-2
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Jörg Schmidt <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> From: Simos Xenitellis [mailto:[hidden email]]
>
>> > Maybe I would also like to be a participant in the
>> LibreOffice Certification
>> > Program, but I am a free spirit and prerequisites such as a) in:
>> >
>> http://www.documentfoundation.org/assets/Certification/tdf-cer
>> tificationcodeofcond
>> > uct.pdf
>> >
>> > are unfortunately too political for me.
>>
>> There are four reasonable points in this PDF. Which one would make it
>> "too political" for you?
>
> I have written:
>
> "...I am a free spirit and prerequisites _such as a)_ in:..."
>
> And so I mean point a)
>

The text there says:

«Certified Professionals conduct the business and provide the services
in a manner
that does not harm the reputation of The Document Foundation;...»

Therefore, if you were a Certified Professional, you are expected *to
conduct the business* and *provide the services*
in a manner that does not harm the reputation of the TDF.

There would be a much deeper problem if a Certified Professional could
not contain themselves
*while* conducting the business and providing the services.

Simos

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Re: OpenOffice

Alex Suk
In reply to this post by Peter Kovacs
On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> We are openly decleared dead.
> Peter
>
> Why not keep the Open Office rights (so the TDF can not use them), but
rename the project - perhaps a new name will resurrect the project?
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Re: ooowiki continuation (was: Re: OpenOffice)

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Simos Xenitellis-2

> From: Simos Xenitellis [mailto:[hidden email]]

> The text there says:
> ...
> ... does not harm the reputation of The Document Foundation;...»

And this is not enough for me, because it can be arbitrarily interpreted.

For example, I was reproached in the forum de.openoffice.info I want to damage LibreOffice just because I said I see problems with the Wiki and would therefore offer help.


Excuse only the problem is too special for me to discuss it in English because I have some problems with the English language.



Jörg


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Re: OpenOffice

Peter Kovacs-2
In reply to this post by Alex Suk
On 10.05.2017 16:13, esh1907 wrote:

> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Peter Kovacs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> We are openly decleared dead.
>> Peter
>>
>> Why not keep the Open Office rights (so the TDF can not use them), but
> rename the project - perhaps a new name will resurrect the project?
Nah. That will not attract people.
Releases and interesting stuff going on will.

Names are sound and smoke...
Old truth in IT.
Big Data Buzzword has been invented in 1990...

All the Best
Peter

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