Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

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Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Zaphod Feeblejocks
Come on, Oracle, do the decent thing.

Release all the code, trademarks, everything to OOo back to the
community, currently called LibreOffice.

If you do - lots of people will thank you.  Even the ones who keep going
to OpenOffice.org and don't realise it has changed ownership.

If you don't - the software of OpenOffice.org will stagnate and the brand name will be ruined.  LibreOffice will implement all the stuff Sun has held back due to licensing issues and, unless OO.org simply recompiles and re-badges, LibreOffice will grown and become much stronger.

There's nothing to stop you joining the community and still having your
own flavour of this great package.

It's good karma for all concerned if you do this ;-)


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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

RA Brown
On Mon Oct 11 2010 09:24:56 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:

> Come on, Oracle, do the decent thing.
>
> Release all the code, trademarks, everything to OOo back to the
> community, currently called LibreOffice.
>
> If you do - lots of people will thank you.  Even the ones who keep going
> to OpenOffice.org and don't realise it has changed ownership.
>
> If you don't - the software of OpenOffice.org will stagnate and the brand name will be ruined.  LibreOffice will implement all the stuff Sun has held back due to licensing issues and, unless OO.org simply recompiles and re-badges, LibreOffice will grown and become much stronger.
>
> There's nothing to stop you joining the community and still having your
> own flavour of this great package.
>
> It's good karma for all concerned if you do this ;-)
>

Great post but I doubt that anyone at Oracle reads this list.  If they
do I rally doubt they care what anyone here has to say.  It is sad but a
fact we have learned to live with. :(




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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

David B Teague-3
  On 10/11/2010 12:33 PM, RA Brown wrote:
>
> Great post but I doubt that anyone at Oracle reads this
> list.  If they do I rally doubt they care what anyone here
> has to say.  It is sad but a fact we have learned to live
> with. :(
If we could convince Oracle's bosses that releasing the
source and donating the OO.o name would put money in
Oracle's pocket, we'd be home free. In any event I suspect
them of being "dogs in the manger" as the Aesop's Fable
says.  I imagine it's just not going to happen.

David
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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Carl Shewmaker


--- On Mon, 10/11/10, David B Teague <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: David B Teague <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [discuss] Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, October 11, 2010, 12:33 PM


On 10/11/2010 12:33 PM, RA Brown wrote:
>
> Great post but I doubt that anyone at Oracle reads this list.  If they do I rally doubt they care what anyone here has to say.  It is sad but a fact we have learned to live with. :(
If we could convince Oracle's bosses that releasing the source and donating the OO.o name would put money in Oracle's pocket, we'd be home free. In any event I suspect them of being "dogs in the manger" as the Aesop's Fable says.  I imagine it's just not going to happen.

David

I mostly lurk and learn from this list, although I sometimes submit an answer to a question if I think it would be helpful. Small contribution to the community to which like to feel I belong.  I also talk up Open Office (and Linux) in the very small market in which I work.  Open Office and Linux let me do with modest equipment things that Microsoft and Oracle charge more for than I can afford. How can I help LibreOffice going forward?
 
Carl
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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

RA Brown
On Mon Oct 11 2010 11:06:15 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Carl Shewmaker wrote:
>
> I mostly lurk and learn from this list, although I sometimes submit an answer to a question if I think it would be helpful. Small contribution to the community to which like to feel I belong.  I also talk up Open Office (and Linux) in the very small market in which I work.  Open Office and Linux let me do with modest equipment things that Microsoft and Oracle charge more for than I can afford. How can I help LibreOffice going forward?
>  
> Carl


You can start at  http://www.documentfoundation.org/ .  They have links
there to other areas of the site.  On the Contribute page, scroll down a
bit and you will find the mailing list.  Join any and all that catch
your eye.  There is a users forum at  http://libreofficeforum.org/forum 
.  The OOo forums also support users questions, http://www.oooforum.org/ 
has been around the longest and is owned by a member of the OOo
community.  The "official" forum,
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/ is also available for all
users.

HTH

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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Ariel Constenla-Haile
In reply to this post by Zaphod Feeblejocks
On Monday 11 October 2010, 13:24, Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:

> Come on, Oracle, do the decent thing.
>
> Release all the code, trademarks, everything to OOo back to the
> community, currently called LibreOffice.
>
> If you do - lots of people will thank you.  Even the ones who keep going
> to OpenOffice.org and don't realise it has changed ownership.
>
> If you don't - the software of OpenOffice.org will stagnate and the brand
> name will be ruined.  LibreOffice will implement all the stuff Sun has
> held back due to licensing issues and, unless OO.org simply recompiles and
> re-badges, LibreOffice will grown and become much stronger.
>
> There's nothing to stop you joining the community and still having your
> own flavour of this great package.
>
> It's good karma for all concerned if you do this ;-)
I am astonished by the naïveté of comments like this.

I guess you all do not follow LibreOffice's mailing list
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2010-September/thread.html
what seems to be the developer's list

You can look at the Minutes of first LibreOffice technical group call
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2010-September/000002.html

LibreOffice's technical group seems to be basically Go-oo with another name...
http://go-oo.org/about/

>
> Release all the code, trademarks, everything to OOo back to the
> community, currently called LibreOffice.
>

I'm not sure yet if TDF is the "Community", I did not make up my mind yet.
But why should Oracle give up everything to Go-oo under another name?
I know nothing about business, but it sounds delirious.

Notice that I'm not talking pro-Oracle here, nor against TDF. I'm just
remarking something quite obvious, as reading the names of the developer's on
a mailing list.... I'm sure people at Oracle can read them too.

Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Simon Brouwer

Ariel Constenla-Haile schreef:

> I'm not sure yet if TDF is the "Community", I did not make up my mind yet.
> But why should Oracle give up everything to Go-oo under another name?

+1

Besides, I wonder what the OP means when requesting Oracle to give up "the
code". Since the beginning of the OOo project, all of its code has been
available under the LGPL.

--
Vriendelijke groet,

Simon Brouwer
-*- nl.openoffice.org -*- http://www.opentaal.org -*-


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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Christian Lippka
In reply to this post by RA Brown
Am 11.10.2010 18:33, schrieb RA Brown:
> On Mon Oct 11 2010 09:24:56 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
>
> Great post but I doubt that anyone at Oracle reads this list.
guess again.

Regards,
Christian

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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Daniel Veillard-2
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:41:14AM +0200, Christian Lippka wrote:
> Am 11.10.2010 18:33, schrieb RA Brown:
> >On Mon Oct 11 2010 09:24:56 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
> >
> >Great post but I doubt that anyone at Oracle reads this list.
> guess again.

  So what are you gonna do about it ? People are waiting for an answer,
and that's not one ! The more you wait, the worse the situation becomes,
does it really takes months to your hierarchy to draft and validate an
answer ?

Daniel

--
Daniel Veillard      | libxml Gnome XML XSLT toolkit  http://xmlsoft.org/
[hidden email]  | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/
http://veillard.com/ | virtualization library  http://libvirt.org/

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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Carl Shewmaker
In reply to this post by Christian Lippka


--- On Tue, 10/12/10, Christian Lippka <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Christian Lippka <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [discuss] Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2010, 3:41 AM


Am 11.10.2010 18:33, schrieb RA Brown:
> On Mon Oct 11 2010 09:24:56 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
>
> Great post but I doubt that anyone at Oracle reads this list.
guess again.

Regards,
Christian

Nice to know, I'll keep that in mind.
 
Regards,
Carl
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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Cor Nouws
In reply to this post by Ariel Constenla-Haile
Hi Ariel,

Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote (12-10-10 02:08)

> You can look at the Minutes of first LibreOffice technical group call
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2010-September/000002.html
>
> LibreOffice's technical group seems to be basically Go-oo with another name...
> http://go-oo.org/about/

And when you look at http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ you
will see quite some people that definitely would not have joined a
roadmap with go-oo in another name.

Te me, it is a tragic quirk of history, that people whom I criticized
private and public for the way they acted wrt OpenOffice.org, are among
the first ones that support the long awaited foundation. Believe me: I
would really have loved to see the people from Hamburg be in that
position, and I have tried what was in my means, as active community
member as well as member of the community council, to bring that point
nearer. Alas, history choose different.

Back to names working on the list you mentioned: pls be patient, as
entities that want to donate to the foundation have to be too ;-)

Kindest regards,
Cor

--
  - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation -
  - ideas/remarks for the community council? See
    http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council


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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Sophie Gautier
Hi,

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Ariel,
>
> Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote (12-10-10 02:08)
>
>> You can look at the Minutes of first LibreOffice technical group call
>>
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2010-September/000002.html
>>
>> LibreOffice's technical group seems to be basically Go-oo with another
>> name...
>> http://go-oo.org/about/
>
> And when you look at http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ you will
> see quite some people that definitely would not have joined a roadmap with
> go-oo in another name.
>
> Te me, it is a tragic quirk of history, that people whom I criticized
> private and public for the way they acted wrt OpenOffice.org, are among the
> first ones that support the long awaited foundation. Believe me: I would
> really have loved to see the people from Hamburg be in that position, and I
> have tried what was in my means, as active community member as well as
> member of the community council, to bring that point nearer. Alas, history
> choose different.
>
> Back to names working on the list you mentioned: pls be patient, as entities
> that want to donate to the foundation have to be too ;-)

I completely second Cor views here.
Kind regards
Sophie

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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Ariel Constenla-Haile
In reply to this post by Cor Nouws
Hello Cor,

On Tuesday 12 October 2010, 17:00, Cor Nouws wrote:

> > You can look at the Minutes of first LibreOffice technical group call
> > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2010-September/000002.h
> > tml
> >
> > LibreOffice's technical group seems to be basically Go-oo with another
> > name... http://go-oo.org/about/
>
> And when you look at http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ you
> will see quite some people that definitely would not have joined a
> roadmap with go-oo in another name.
yes, I know that. That's why I was/am rather surprised.

I must admit these move took me by surprise: not that I couldn't read the
signs, nor that I live under a stone, but since I got selected for the
OpenOffice.org Summer Internship 2010 I do not have much time to follow the
discussions on the mailing list, and mail just deleted as it comes or marked
as To-read-later (I'm not on Summer Holidays until the end of December, so you
can imagine I'm rather busy with the Uni, job, and OOo Internship).

> Te me, it is a tragic quirk of history, that people whom I criticized
> private and public for the way they acted wrt OpenOffice.org, are among
> the first ones that support the long awaited foundation. Believe me: I
> would really have loved to see the people from Hamburg be in that
> position, and I have tried what was in my means, as active community
> member as well as member of the community council, to bring that point
> nearer. Alas, history choose different.
>
> Back to names working on the list you mentioned: pls be patient,

I think I'm being rather patient (besides some fireworks on the Spanish mailing
list), it was just that I couldn't resist to answer the OP... sure you
understand ;-)

> as
> entities that want to donate to the foundation have to be too ;-)
>
> Kindest regards,
> Cor

Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Thomas Lange - Oracle
In reply to this post by RA Brown

Hi,

On 11.10.2010 18:33, RA Brown wrote:

> On Mon Oct 11 2010 09:24:56 GMT-0700 (PDT)  Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
>> Come on, Oracle, do the decent thing.
>>
>> Release all the code, trademarks, everything to OOo back to the
>> community, currently called LibreOffice.
>>
>> If you do - lots of people will thank you.  Even the ones who keep going
>> to OpenOffice.org and don't realise it has changed ownership.
>>
>> If you don't - the software of OpenOffice.org will stagnate and the brand name will be ruined.  LibreOffice will implement all the stuff Sun has held back due to licensing issues and, unless OO.org simply recompiles and re-badges, LibreOffice will grown and become much stronger.
>>
>> There's nothing to stop you joining the community and still having your
>> own flavour of this great package.
>>
>> It's good karma for all concerned if you do this ;-)
>>
>
> Great post but I doubt that anyone at Oracle reads this list.  If they
> do I rally doubt they care what anyone here has to say.  It is sad but a
> fact we have learned to live with. :(

We do read this list (and all the others). ^_-
However most of those who do are in no position to make such decisions.
That's up to top management and probably lawyers as well.

Thomas



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Re: Oracle [NOT!] dropping OO.org

Malte Timmermann-2
In reply to this post by Ariel Constenla-Haile
Thanks for the good reply Ariel!

Eventually, there is an official statement from Oracle available now:

http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/177158

So you see, Oracle is still very committed to OpenOffice.org!

Malte.

Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote, On 10/12/10 02:08:

> On Monday 11 October 2010, 13:24, Zaphod Feeblejocks wrote:
>> Come on, Oracle, do the decent thing.
>>
>> Release all the code, trademarks, everything to OOo back to the
>> community, currently called LibreOffice.
>>
>> If you do - lots of people will thank you.  Even the ones who keep going
>> to OpenOffice.org and don't realise it has changed ownership.
>>
>> If you don't - the software of OpenOffice.org will stagnate and the brand
>> name will be ruined.  LibreOffice will implement all the stuff Sun has
>> held back due to licensing issues and, unless OO.org simply recompiles and
>> re-badges, LibreOffice will grown and become much stronger.
>>
>> There's nothing to stop you joining the community and still having your
>> own flavour of this great package.
>>
>> It's good karma for all concerned if you do this ;-)
>
> I am astonished by the naïveté of comments like this.
>
> I guess you all do not follow LibreOffice's mailing list
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2010-September/thread.html
> what seems to be the developer's list
>
> You can look at the Minutes of first LibreOffice technical group call
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2010-September/000002.html
>
> LibreOffice's technical group seems to be basically Go-oo with another name...
> http://go-oo.org/about/
>
>>
>> Release all the code, trademarks, everything to OOo back to the
>> community, currently called LibreOffice.
>>
>
> I'm not sure yet if TDF is the "Community", I did not make up my mind yet.
> But why should Oracle give up everything to Go-oo under another name?
> I know nothing about business, but it sounds delirious.
>
> Notice that I'm not talking pro-Oracle here, nor against TDF. I'm just
> remarking something quite obvious, as reading the names of the developer's on
> a mailing list.... I'm sure people at Oracle can read them too.
>
> Regards

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Re: Oracle [NOT!] dropping OO.org

Jonathon Blake
On 10/13/2010 04:10 PM, Malte Timmermann wrote:

> So you see, Oracle is still very committed to OpenOffice.org!

That is nothing more than a PR fluff piece.

jonathon
--
No human will see non-list, non-bulk, non-junk email sent to this address.
It all gets forwarded to /dev/null


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Re: Oracle [NOT!] dropping OO.org

Cor Nouws
In reply to this post by Malte Timmermann-2
Hi Malte,

Malte Timmermann wrote (13-10-10 18:10)

> Thanks for the good reply Ariel!

Yes, but don't forget to read the next mails in the thread.

> Eventually, there is an official statement from Oracle available now:

That itself already is a clear result of the existence of the Document
Foundation ;-)

> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/177158
>
> So you see, Oracle is still very committed to OpenOffice.org!

For me, there has never been doubt about that. And as far as I know the
The Document Foundation, possible doubts about future plans of Oracle
aren't part of the motivation.

But the PR is good to read. It is a silent hope from me, that the start
of the foundation motivates Oracle to put more dev-power in
OpenOffice.org, so that a part of "Oracle’s growing team" that the PR
mentions, indeed will have as task work on OpenOffice.org.

Together with my opinion that after some time we all can gain from this
new situation [1], that sounds as a very happy ending for this 10th
birthday :-)

Regards,

Cor

1] http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=66788


--
  - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation -
  - ideas/remarks for the community council? See
    http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council


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Re: Oracle dropping OO.org and joining the community...

Cor Nouws
In reply to this post by Ariel Constenla-Haile
Hi Ariel,

Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote (13-10-10 02:33)

>> And when you look at http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ you
>> will see quite some people that definitely would not have joined a
>> roadmap with go-oo in another name.
>
> yes, I know that. That's why I was/am rather surprised.
>
> I must admit these move took me by surprise: not that I couldn't read the
> signs, nor that I live under a stone, but since I got selected for the
> OpenOffice.org Summer Internship 2010 I do not have much time to follow the
> discussions on the mailing list, and mail just deleted as it comes or marked
> as To-read-later (I'm not on Summer Holidays until the end of December, so you
> can imagine I'm rather busy with the Uni, job, and OOo Internship).

I think following the lists more careful, would not have given you much
more signs about what was going on.
But OK, I hope you do fine with the Internship - I even trust it :-)
It was quite some work to get it started etc, so happy to see you there!

>>
>> Back to names working on the list you mentioned: pls be patient,
>
> I think I'm being rather patient (besides some fireworks on the Spanish mailing
> list), it was just that I couldn't resist to answer the OP... sure you
> understand ;-)

Ah :-) Pls learn German and read their dev-list. Quite some individuals
with strong opinions and feelings that produce tons of CO2 with sending
around loooong mail-discussions. I glad it is relatively quit here.

>> as
>> entities that want to donate to the foundation have to be too ;-)

Regards,
Cor


--
  - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation -
  - ideas/remarks for the community council? See
    http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council


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Re: Oracle [NOT!] dropping OO.org

Sophie Gautier
In reply to this post by Cor Nouws
Hi all,

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Cor Nouws <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Malte,
>
> Malte Timmermann wrote (13-10-10 18:10)
>
>> Thanks for the good reply Ariel!
>
> Yes, but don't forget to read the next mails in the thread.
>
>> Eventually, there is an official statement from Oracle available now:
>
> That itself already is a clear result of the existence of the Document
> Foundation ;-)
>
>> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/177158
>>
>> So you see, Oracle is still very committed to OpenOffice.org!
>
> For me, there has never been doubt about that. And as far as I know the The
> Document Foundation, possible doubts about future plans of Oracle aren't
> part of the motivation.

For me either, the difference is that some core or long  community
members are dropping out. Whatever Oracle reinforce, it's just too
late.
Things are happening elsewhere. But it's never too late to join :)

Kind regards
Sophie

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Re: Oracle [NOT!] dropping OO.org

Malte Timmermann-2
In reply to this post by Cor Nouws
Hi Cor,

Cor Nouws wrote, On 10/13/10 20:45:

>> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/177158
>>
>> So you see, Oracle is still very committed to OpenOffice.org!
>
> For me, there has never been doubt about that. And as far as I know the
> The Document Foundation, possible doubts about future plans of Oracle
> aren't part of the motivation.
>
> But the PR is good to read. It is a silent hope from me, that the start
> of the foundation motivates Oracle to put more dev-power in
> OpenOffice.org, so that a part of "Oracle’s growing team" that the PR
> mentions, indeed will have as task work on OpenOffice.org.
>
> Together with my opinion that after some time we all can gain from this
> new situation [1], that sounds as a very happy ending for this 10th
> birthday :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor
>
> 1] http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=discuss&msgNo=66788
>

Not sure if I got it right:

You are happy about every Oracle OOo developer, because TDF will
certainly grab everything they can get from the OOo repositories and put
it into the LO repository.

Not hard to not understand, but what about the part "after some time we
all can gain from this new situation"?

How can OOo gain from this?

It's not clear to me how contributions to LO will make their way to
OpenOffice.org.

For me, it looks very much one-way: LO grabbing a lot of stuff from OOo,
but LO not contributing anything to OOo.

Can you explain? What are TDF's plans wrt contributions to OOo?

Thanks in advance,
Malte.


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