PDF Conversion

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PDF Conversion

Douglas Hinds

OO's ability to create pdf files is a valuable asset.

However, the need frequently arises to convert pdf files to a
editable format.

I installed the extension OO offers for doing that but the results
were not adequate.

I no longer use Windows.  Can anyone suggest a Linux Application
(I'm running Mint - a version of Ubuntu) that would allow me to
convert PDF files to a format editable in OO?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

--

Douglas Hinds


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Re: PDF Conversion

Dan Lewis
Douglas Hinds wrote:

> OO's ability to create pdf files is a valuable asset.
>
> However, the need frequently arises to convert pdf files to a
> editable format.
>
> I installed the extension OO offers for doing that but the results
> were not adequate.
>
> I no longer use Windows.  Can anyone suggest a Linux Application
> (I'm running Mint - a version of Ubuntu) that would allow me to
> convert PDF files to a format editable in OO?
>
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
>
>    
It might help if you had stated what you meant by "the results were not
adequate." What type of editing do you want to do? Where does OOo fail
to do what you want?

Dan

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Re: PDF Conversion

Todd Goatley
In reply to this post by Douglas Hinds
Try Adobe Reader. You can save the doc in text, then open it in OO.

Todd Goatley
Email: [hidden email]
Mobile mail: [hidden email]
C: 775-223-0839

Sent from myTouch 4G

----- Reply message -----
From: "Daniel Lewis" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: [users] PDF Conversion
Date: Fri, Dec 10, 2010 10:51


Douglas Hinds wrote:

> OO's ability to create pdf files is a valuable asset.
>
> However, the need frequently arises to convert pdf files to a
> editable format.
>
> I installed the extension OO offers for doing that but the results
> were not adequate.
>
> I no longer use Windows.  Can anyone suggest a Linux Application
> (I'm running Mint - a version of Ubuntu) that would allow me to
> convert PDF files to a format editable in OO?
>
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
>
>    
It might help if you had stated what you meant by "the results were not
adequate." What type of editing do you want to do? Where does OOo fail
to do what you want?

Dan

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Re: PDF Conversion

Johnny Rosenberg
In reply to this post by Douglas Hinds
Den 2010-12-10 19:39:44 skrev Douglas Hinds <[hidden email]>:

>
> OO's ability to create pdf files is a valuable asset.
>
> However, the need frequently arises to convert pdf files to a
> editable format.
>
> I installed the extension OO offers for doing that but the results
> were not adequate.
>
> I no longer use Windows.  Can anyone suggest a Linux Application
> (I'm running Mint - a version of Ubuntu) that would allow me to
> convert PDF files to a format editable in OO?
>
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
>

What kind of ”editing” do you frequently want to do? If it is simple  
things like filling in a PDF form (FDF), you can use Evince. I discovered  
that the other day by accident… I know that it didn't work in earlier  
versions, but now it does (I use Evince 2.32.0). You can fill in some  
fields, save the document, open it again and continue editing the fields.  
You still can not do that in Adobe Reader though.

--
Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg

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Re[2]: [users] PDF Conversion

Douglas Hinds
In reply to this post by Todd Goatley

Todd Goatley suggested:

> Try Adobe Reader. You can save the doc in text, then open it in OO.

Thank you for your response, but:

Adobe Acrobat Reader is a Windows Program, and

Saving to a text file (equivalent to extracting the text) means that
I lose both the graphics and the rest of the page formatting, which

Is not really what I was hoping for.  I was hoping for a faithful
reproduction of the pdf file in an editable format.

In Windows (a now obsolete OS) Solid Converter PDF does a good job
of doing that, but I have not been able to run under Wine (I'm using
TheBat! version 3.99 - an email client for win - to write this with
- WineHQ informer me that version 4 won't run, but v. 3.x will).

Other commercial pdf editors/creators include Foxit but I was hoping
an opensource app was available (Ghostscript will extract to text
but as I mentioned, that's not what I have in mind).

In any case, than you for your response.

Douglas Hinds


> Email: [hidden email]
> Mobile mail: [hidden email]
> C: 775-223-0839

> Sent from myTouch 4G
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Daniel Lewis" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [users] PDF Conversion
> Date: Fri, Dec 10, 2010 10:51
>
>
> Douglas Hinds wrote:
>> OO's ability to create pdf files is a valuable asset.
>>
>> However, the need frequently arises to convert pdf files to a
>> editable format.
>>



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Re: Re[2]: [users] PDF Conversion

Johnny Rosenberg
Den 2010-12-10 21:13:38 skrev Douglas Hinds <[hidden email]>:

>
> Todd Goatley suggested:
>
>> Try Adobe Reader. You can save the doc in text, then open it in OO.
>
> Thank you for your response, but:
>
> Adobe Acrobat Reader is a Windows Program

There is a Linux version of Adobe Reader, I've used it for years. For  
Adobe Acrobat however, there is no Linux version as far as I know, but  
that was not what was suggested.


Best regards

Johnny Rosenberg



> , and
>
> Saving to a text file (equivalent to extracting the text) means that
> I lose both the graphics and the rest of the page formatting, which
>
> Is not really what I was hoping for.  I was hoping for a faithful
> reproduction of the pdf file in an editable format.
>
> In Windows (a now obsolete OS) Solid Converter PDF does a good job
> of doing that, but I have not been able to run under Wine (I'm using
> TheBat! version 3.99 - an email client for win - to write this with
> - WineHQ informer me that version 4 won't run, but v. 3.x will).
>
> Other commercial pdf editors/creators include Foxit but I was hoping
> an opensource app was available (Ghostscript will extract to text
> but as I mentioned, that's not what I have in mind).
>
> In any case, than you for your response.
>
> Douglas Hinds
>
>
>> Email: [hidden email]
>> Mobile mail: [hidden email]
>> C: 775-223-0839
>
>> Sent from myTouch 4G
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Daniel Lewis" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: [users] PDF Conversion
>> Date: Fri, Dec 10, 2010 10:51
>>
>>
>> Douglas Hinds wrote:
>>> OO's ability to create pdf files is a valuable asset.
>>>
>>> However, the need frequently arises to convert pdf files to a
>>> editable format.
>>>

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Re[2]: [users] PDF Conversion

Douglas Hinds
In reply to this post by Dan Lewis

> It might help if you had stated what you meant by "the results were not
> adequate."

OO writer can now open pdf files, but it opens them in OO Draw and
each and every line is included in it's own text box so the
documents flow is totally lost for the purpose of editing.  The
letterhead didn't appear, either.  And we are describing a pdf
document created in writer and exported to pdf from there.

> What type of editing do you want to do?

I want a faithful reproduction of the pdf file in a totally editable
form.

> Where does OOo fail to do what you want?

It doesn't do the above.  OO opens pdf files in Draw - that means
it's a graphics rather than a document file.

Perhaps there's a configuration that can change this - which is
the reason for my post today to users at oo.org.

Any ideas?

Douglas Hinds


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Re: PDF Conversion

upscope-2
On Friday, December 10, 2010 12:47:08 pm Douglas Hinds wrote:
>
> > It might help if you had stated what you meant by "the results
were not
> > adequate."
>
> OO writer can now open pdf files, but it opens them in OO Draw and
> each and every line is included in it's own text box so the
> documents flow is totally lost for the purpose of editing.  The
> letterhead didn't appear, either.  And we are describing a pdf
> document created in writer and exported to pdf from there.
>
> Douglas Hinds

I've used the draw version to do a little editing but as stated, it
looses the formatting and graphics.Not very practical for any document
with graphics or more than two or three lines.

What does the OO extension for writer miss?

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>

--
Russ

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Re: PDF Conversion

RA Brown
In reply to this post by Douglas Hinds
On Fri Dec 10 2010 12:13:38 GMT-0800 (PST)  Douglas Hinds wrote:
> Todd Goatley suggested:
>
>> Try Adobe Reader. You can save the doc in text, then open it in OO.
>
> Thank you for your response, but:
>
> Adobe Acrobat Reader is a Windows Program, and

There are versions of Adobe Reader for Linux as well.  Available from
the Ubuntu repositories.

> Saving to a text file (equivalent to extracting the text) means that
> I lose both the graphics and the rest of the page formatting, which
>
> Is not really what I was hoping for.  I was hoping for a faithful
> reproduction of the pdf file in an editable format.

Have you tried looking at the Ubuntu repositories?  There is one there
called  PDF Editor  .  It is listed under the Graphics programs but it
seems to work.  It does not dot save to the ODF format so any editing
will have to be done within PDF Editor.

HTH
Andy



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Re: PDF Conversion

Brian Barker
In reply to this post by Douglas Hinds
At 14:47 10/12/2010 -0600, Douglas Hinds wrote:
>OO writer can now open pdf files, but it opens them in OO Draw and
>each and every line is included in it's own text box so the
>documents flow is totally lost for the purpose of editing.

It may be worth saying that this is precisely what you should
expect.  There is no text flow in a PDF document: each line is a
separate line, with no information in the file to indicate whether
the lines are separate paragraphs or parts of a single
paragraph.  Software has at best to guess where the paragraph breaks
are, and cannot always get it right.

>And we are describing a pdf document created in writer and exported
>to pdf from there.

Well, there is your answer: go back to the .odt file that you or your
correspondent saved from Writer and kept for exactly this scenario -
the need for further editing.  Expecting to do this from a PDF
version is a bit like scanning a hard copy and expecting to get a
fully formed word processor document from it.

But good luck in your endeavours nevertheless!

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


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Re: Re[2]: [users] PDF Conversion

Johnny Rosenberg
In reply to this post by Douglas Hinds
Den 2010-12-10 21:47:08 skrev Douglas Hinds <[hidden email]>:

>
>> It might help if you had stated what you meant by "the results were not
>> adequate."
>
> OO writer can now open pdf files, but it opens them in OO Draw and
> each and every line is included in it's own text box so the
> documents flow is totally lost for the purpose of editing.  The
> letterhead didn't appear, either.  And we are describing a pdf
> document created in writer and exported to pdf from there.
>
>> What type of editing do you want to do?
>
> I want a faithful reproduction of the pdf file in a totally editable
> form.
>
>> Where does OOo fail to do what you want?
>
> It doesn't do the above.  OO opens pdf files in Draw - that means
> it's a graphics rather than a document file.
>
> Perhaps there's a configuration that can change this - which is
> the reason for my post today to users at oo.org.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Douglas Hinds
>

Well, there are a few PDF editors out there, most of them are crap, but  
you have to find out for yourself what suits your need best. Someone has  
already mentioned PDF Editor. You can also edit PDF files in Scribus I  
think, and maybe even Incscape.

There are also commercial software, one of them is PDF Studio, which I  
installed on my system. You can use it without paying anything for a short  
period of time and after that you need to purchase or use a somewhat  
crippled version…

But not everything is free in life, not even for Linux users some times…

--
Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg

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Re[4]: [users] PDF Conversion

Douglas Hinds

>>> What type of editing do you want to do?

>> I want a faithful reproduction of the pdf file in a totally editable
>> form.

>>> Where does OOo fail to do what you want?

>> It doesn't do the above. OO writer opens pdf files in Draw - that
>> means it's a graphics rather than a document file.

>> Perhaps there's a configuration that can change this - which is
>> the reason for my post today to users at oo.org.

>> Any ideas?

>> Douglas Hinds


> Well, there are a few PDF editors out there, most of them are crap, but  
> you have to find out for yourself what suits your need best.

I work with development issues and the pdf files I have to deal with
describe governmental programs that provide support for certain types
of projects.  Each program has it's own Prerequisites, including
Formats that must be used.

So I need underline certain passages and sometimes make them bold.
And I need to cite the relevant articles.  These are public
documents but the text within a pdf file can't be manipulated in
that way.

Solid Converter PDF is a commercial Win application that does a pretty
good job at converting pdf files to rtf or word docs (it will
generally keep the flow and graphics intact, providing a number of
options through a wizard, which seem to handle most cases).

> Someone has already mentioned PDF Editor.

I'll try it. I installed PDF Chain (a GUI for PDFTK), which doesn't
seem to fit my needs (as described above).

> You can also edit PDF files in Scribus I think, and maybe even
> Incscape.

More than editing, I need the capacity to convert pdf files to a
format 00 can handle as a document.

> There are also commercial software, one of them is PDF Studio, which I  
> installed on my system. You can use it without paying anything for a short  
> period of time and after that you need to purchase or use a somewhat  
> crippled version…

I'll check that out too.

> But not everything is free in life, not even for Linux users some times…

OO and free unix-like OSs represent a very different approach to
IT, with opencode and mutual support being principles that users and
developers adhere to.

Evolutionary Biologist Lynn Margulis claims that the principle
force driving the most significant evolutionary leaps is
NOT Natural Selection (as Darwin believed) but rather the
integration of previously separate organisms (which allowed
Prokaryotes to become Eukayotes - including homo sapiens).

Culturally, Collaboration is preferable to Competition but I'm not a
purist - we have to deal with things that are available and I use
some commercial software (i.e. The Bat!, which as I mentioned
earlier, is running pretty well under Wine).

Thanks to all here who mentioned possible options, which I will take
a look at tomorrow.

Douglas Hinds


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Re: Re[2]: PDF Conversion

twayne at twaynesdomain
In reply to this post by Douglas Hinds
In news:[hidden email],
Douglas Hinds <[hidden email]> typed:

>> It might help if you had stated what you meant by "the
>> results were not adequate."
>
> OO writer can now open pdf files, but it opens them in OO
> Draw and each and every line is included in it's own text
> box so the documents flow is totally lost for the purpose
> of editing.  The letterhead didn't appear, either.  And we
> are describing a pdf document created in writer and
> exported to pdf from there.
>
>> What type of editing do you want to do?
>
> I want a faithful reproduction of the pdf file in a totally
> editable form.
>
>> Where does OOo fail to do what you want?
>
> It doesn't do the above.  OO opens pdf files in Draw - that
> means it's a graphics rather than a document file.
>
> Perhaps there's a configuration that can change this -
> which is
> the reason for my post today to users at oo.org.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Douglas Hinds

If you have OCR, perhaps you can feed the documents to your OCR and get both
the images and text back that way. Just a passing thought.

HTH,

Twayne`




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Re: PDF Conversion

NoOp-4
In reply to this post by Douglas Hinds
On 12/10/2010 10:39 AM, Douglas Hinds wrote:

>
> OO's ability to create pdf files is a valuable asset.
>
> However, the need frequently arises to convert pdf files to a
> editable format.
>
> I installed the extension OO offers for doing that but the results
> were not adequate.
>
> I no longer use Windows.  Can anyone suggest a Linux Application
> (I'm running Mint - a version of Ubuntu) that would allow me to
> convert PDF files to a format editable in OO?
>
> Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
>

While doubling the size of the PDF, you can save as a 'hybrid' PDF. That
way you can open the PDF directly in Writer and edit.

<http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pdf_Import_Extension/Announcement>

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&complete=0&q=openoffice+%2Bpdf+%2Bhybrid&btnG=Search>

For existing:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PDF_software#Unix_.2F_Linux>

PDF Edit is good, but rather complex and can take some time to master (I
never have).
http://pdfedit.petricek.net/en/index.html
http://pdfedit.petricek.net/en/user_doc.html

If you plan to edit quite a few, particularly in a commercial
environment, I'd recommend PDF Studio:
http://www.qoppa.com/index.html
Give the free trial a spin:
http://www.qoppa.com/pdfstudio/index.html


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Re: Re[2]: PDF Conversion

Douglas Hinds
In reply to this post by twayne at twaynesdomain

Twayne suggested:

> If you have OCR, perhaps you can feed the documents to your OCR and get both
> the images and text back that way. Just a passing thought.

That might prove useful (and the Mint Software Manager lists a
number of them) but would be far more complicated than a pdf
to .doc or .rtf conversion application because:

1.- OCR apps are usually not fully accurate (and I have to convert
    a LOT of pdf files); and

2.- It assumes that most pdf files are graphics files at bottom,
    which is often not the case.

In fact, a pdf file generated by a scanner will NOT convert to a
word processor document (EXCEPT in the manner you suggest) but the
vast majority of pdf files are NOT graphics files but rather,
DOCUMENT files (hence the name, portable document format) and will
convert quite readily to text plus graphics layouts, using a proper
converter.

Remember that PDF is an Adobe format and so is Postscript.

Applications that convert Postscript to PDF and Vice Versa exist but
I am still investigating the available options and haven't installed
any yet.

Whatever I discover I'll post here.

Douglas Hinds


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Re: PDF Conversion

Douglas Hinds
In reply to this post by NoOp-4

NoOp mentioned:

> While doubling the size of the PDF, you can save as a 'hybrid' PDF. That
> way you can open the PDF directly in Writer and edit.

That's definitely worth a try.

But if I open a pdf file as such from oo write it will open it in oo
draw which does not offer that format when I try to save it.

> <http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Pdf_Import_Extension/Announcement>
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&complete=0&q=openoffice+%2Bpdf+%2Bhybrid&btnG=Search>
>
> For existing:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PDF_software#Unix_.2F_Linux>
>
> PDF Edit is good, but rather complex and can take some time to master (I
> never have).
> http://pdfedit.petricek.net/en/index.html
> http://pdfedit.petricek.net/en/user_doc.html
>
> If you plan to edit quite a few, particularly in a commercial
> environment, I'd recommend PDF Studio:
> http://www.qoppa.com/index.html
> Give the free trial a spin:
> http://www.qoppa.com/pdfstudio/index.html

More  than  EDIT  pdf files, my goal is to EXTRACT or EMPHASIZE info
contained in them.

Converting to a .txt file would allow that but of course, I'd lose
the preexisting formatting and graphics.

I will follow up on your suggestions and links, which should help me
arrive sooner at a more or less workable solution.

One more thing:  My own posts are not returning (so I'm bbc-ing
myself) and I'm wondering if this can be changed via my account's
configuration.


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Re: PDF Conversion

RA Brown
On Sat Dec 11 2010 14:45:54 GMT-0800 (PST)  Douglas Hinds wrote:

> One more thing:  My own posts are not returning (so I'm bbc-ing
> myself) and I'm wondering if this can be changed via my account's
> configuration.

That is a Gmail thing.  For some reason they figure that if you send it
you do not need a copy.  Go figure.


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Re: PDF Conversion

NoOp-4
In reply to this post by Douglas Hinds
On 12/11/2010 02:45 PM, Douglas Hinds wrote:

>
> NoOp mentioned:
>
>> While doubling the size of the PDF, you can save as a 'hybrid' PDF. That
>> way you can open the PDF directly in Writer and edit.
>
> That's definitely worth a try.
>
> But if I open a pdf file as such from oo write it will open it in oo
> draw which does not offer that format when I try to save it.

I didn't say that the hybrid feature will work with existing PDFs.
Please read what I wrote.

If I a export a PDF as a hybrid file, and then open OOo and select
File|Open|path to the hybrid PDF, the file opens in Writer.


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Re: PDF Conversion

Johnny Rosenberg
In reply to this post by RA Brown
Den 2010-12-12 01:33:24 skrev RA Brown <[hidden email]>:

> On Sat Dec 11 2010 14:45:54 GMT-0800 (PST)  Douglas Hinds wrote:
>
>> One more thing:  My own posts are not returning (so I'm bbc-ing
>> myself) and I'm wondering if this can be changed via my account's
>> configuration.
>
> That is a Gmail thing.  For some reason they figure that if you send it  
> you do not need a copy.  Go figure.
>

Well, the Gmail idea is, as far as I know, that you are not supposed to  
delete anything, so everything you ever wrote or received is still  
searchable in Gmail and you can also find your written messages by  
clicking ”Sent messages”.


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Johnny Rosenberg

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Re: Re[2]: [users] PDF Conversion

Harold Fuchs-2
In reply to this post by Johnny Rosenberg
On 10 December 2010 20:43, Johnny Rosenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Den 2010-12-10 21:13:38 skrev Douglas Hinds <[hidden email]>:
>
>
>
>> Todd Goatley suggested:
>>
>>  Try Adobe Reader. You can save the doc in text, then open it in OO.
>>>
>>
>> Thank you for your response, but:
>>
>> Adobe Acrobat Reader is a Windows Program
>>
>
> There is a Linux version of Adobe Reader, I've used it for years. For Adobe
> Acrobat however, there is no Linux version as far as I know, but that was
> not what was suggested.
>
>
>
>
<snip>

Will Acrobat run under WINE?

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London, England
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