[PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

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[PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Dave Fisher
Hi -

In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.

Regards,
Dave

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Peter Kovacs-3
On 30.11.2017 21:26, Dave Fisher wrote:
> Hi -
>
> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
I think we already do this with our Release Candidates. We could of
course make an official annoucement like we would with a normal release,
to increase visibility.
Maybe create a sticki on Forums too, that presends the current release
candidate and maybe a small guide how to install the version next to a
productive one?


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Marcus (OOo)
In reply to this post by Dave Fisher
Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.

I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase
for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.

We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising
areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.

And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of
4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality
towards the final release build.

For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I
would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our
users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants
to handle.

Marcus


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Jim Jagielski
I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
(http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs


> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>
> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>
> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>
> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>
> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>
> Marcus
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Mechtilde Stehmann-2
Hello

I like this idea, too. it makes it visible that we aren't dead.

Regards

Mechtilde

Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:

> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>
>
>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>
>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>
>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>
>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>
>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
>
--
Mechtilde Stehmann
## Apache OpenOffice.org
## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
## Debian Developer
## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
## PGP encryption welcome
## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Jim Jagielski
I see that Pat has committed the security patches to trunk, which is fantastic!
Maybe we should take the next few business days and go thru Bugz
and see what, if anything, would be low-risk patches to trunk and
pencil in, say, Dec 7th as a "code freeze" date for builds...

I can provide builds for all 4 platforms.

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 1:34 AM, Mechtilde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I like this idea, too. it makes it visible that we aren't dead.
>
> Regards
>
> Mechtilde
>
> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>
>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>
>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>
>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>>
>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mechtilde Stehmann
> ## Apache OpenOffice.org
> ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
> ## Debian Developer
> ## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
> ## PGP encryption welcome
> ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F
>


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Patricia Shanahan
Remember we also have the 4.1.5 branch, which is a lower risk solution
to some 4.1.4 regressions.

I think it is time to decide whether to release it, and if so, what the
timing should be relative to the start of the 4.2 beta test. There is
something to be said for a single announcement so that we can explain
the relationship.

On 12/1/2017 5:13 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:

> I see that Pat has committed the security patches to trunk, which is fantastic!
> Maybe we should take the next few business days and go thru Bugz
> and see what, if anything, would be low-risk patches to trunk and
> pencil in, say, Dec 7th as a "code freeze" date for builds...
>
> I can provide builds for all 4 platforms.
>
>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 1:34 AM, Mechtilde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello
>>
>> I like this idea, too. it makes it visible that we aren't dead.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mechtilde
>>
>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>
>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>
>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>>
>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>>>
>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>>>
>>>> Marcus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mechtilde Stehmann
>> ## Apache OpenOffice.org
>> ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
>> ## Debian Developer
>> ## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
>> ## PGP encryption welcome
>> ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F
>>
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Jim Jagielski
I also like that we announce 4.1.5-GA at the same time we announce 4.2.0-B1.

Should we clone the 4.1.4 release Wiki page (to create a 4.1.5) and
start keeping track there?

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 8:18 AM, Patricia Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Remember we also have the 4.1.5 branch, which is a lower risk solution to some 4.1.4 regressions.
>
> I think it is time to decide whether to release it, and if so, what the timing should be relative to the start of the 4.2 beta test. There is something to be said for a single announcement so that we can explain the relationship.
>
> On 12/1/2017 5:13 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> I see that Pat has committed the security patches to trunk, which is fantastic!
>> Maybe we should take the next few business days and go thru Bugz
>> and see what, if anything, would be low-risk patches to trunk and
>> pencil in, say, Dec 7th as a "code freeze" date for builds...
>> I can provide builds for all 4 platforms.
>>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 1:34 AM, Mechtilde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> I like this idea, too. it makes it visible that we aren't dead.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mechtilde
>>>
>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
>>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>>>
>>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mechtilde Stehmann
>>> ## Apache OpenOffice.org
>>> ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
>>> ## Debian Developer
>>> ## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
>>> ## PGP encryption welcome
>>> ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Patricia Shanahan
Switching positions, the last time we discussed release planning, 11/22,
Damjan needed a month or two to finish PostgreSQL driver work before he
would recommend releasing 4.2.0. That seems more like early next year,
rather than early December

I am not sure we should wait that long before 4.1.5-GA.

On a personal note, I will be busy and/or traveling from early January
until mid-March. My AOO activity will be limited.

On 12/1/2017 5:42 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:

> I also like that we announce 4.1.5-GA at the same time we announce 4.2.0-B1.
>
> Should we clone the 4.1.4 release Wiki page (to create a 4.1.5) and
> start keeping track there?
>
>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 8:18 AM, Patricia Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Remember we also have the 4.1.5 branch, which is a lower risk solution to some 4.1.4 regressions.
>>
>> I think it is time to decide whether to release it, and if so, what the timing should be relative to the start of the 4.2 beta test. There is something to be said for a single announcement so that we can explain the relationship.
>>
>> On 12/1/2017 5:13 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> I see that Pat has committed the security patches to trunk, which is fantastic!
>>> Maybe we should take the next few business days and go thru Bugz
>>> and see what, if anything, would be low-risk patches to trunk and
>>> pencil in, say, Dec 7th as a "code freeze" date for builds...
>>> I can provide builds for all 4 platforms.
>>>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 1:34 AM, Mechtilde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello
>>>>
>>>> I like this idea, too. it makes it visible that we aren't dead.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Mechtilde
>>>>
>>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
>>>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mechtilde Stehmann
>>>> ## Apache OpenOffice.org
>>>> ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
>>>> ## Debian Developer
>>>> ## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
>>>> ## PGP encryption welcome
>>>> ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Jim Jagielski

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 9:35 AM, Patricia Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Switching positions, the last time we discussed release planning, 11/22, Damjan needed a month or two to finish PostgreSQL driver work before he would recommend releasing 4.2.0. That seems more like early next year, rather than early December
>
> I am not sure we should wait that long before 4.1.5-GA.

I agree w/ that.


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Peter Kovacs-3
In reply to this post by Jim Jagielski
+1

Am 1. Dezember 2017 14:42:44 MEZ schrieb Jim Jagielski <[hidden email]>:

>I also like that we announce 4.1.5-GA at the same time we announce
>4.2.0-B1.
>
>Should we clone the 4.1.4 release Wiki page (to create a 4.1.5) and
>start keeping track there?
>
>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 8:18 AM, Patricia Shanahan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Remember we also have the 4.1.5 branch, which is a lower risk
>solution to some 4.1.4 regressions.
>>
>> I think it is time to decide whether to release it, and if so, what
>the timing should be relative to the start of the 4.2 beta test. There
>is something to be said for a single announcement so that we can
>explain the relationship.
>>
>> On 12/1/2017 5:13 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> I see that Pat has committed the security patches to trunk, which is
>fantastic!
>>> Maybe we should take the next few business days and go thru Bugz
>>> and see what, if anything, would be low-risk patches to trunk and
>>> pencil in, say, Dec 7th as a "code freeze" date for builds...
>>> I can provide builds for all 4 platforms.
>>>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 1:34 AM, Mechtilde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello
>>>>
>>>> I like this idea, too. it makes it visible that we aren't dead.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Mechtilde
>>>>
>>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev
>builds available
>>>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/
><http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together
>but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the
>team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this
>would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more
>of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test
>phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some
>advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make
>it visible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds
>of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality
>towards the final release build.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-)
>I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our
>users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants
>to handle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mechtilde Stehmann
>>>> ## Apache OpenOffice.org
>>>> ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
>>>> ## Debian Developer
>>>> ## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
>>>> ## PGP encryption welcome
>>>> ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F
>>>>
>>>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Matthias Seidel
In reply to this post by Jim Jagielski
Hi Jim,

Did you have the opportunity to install 4.2.0 on macOS?

I would be interested if the new icon does show up:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns

I created it on Windows with a program called "iConvertIcons" and had no
chance to test it.

Regards, Matthias


Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:

> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>
>
>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>
>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>
>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>
>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Jim Jagielski
My latest 4.2.0-dev builds are available at

    http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/>

But these are dmg's not installers.

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Matthias Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Did you have the opportunity to install 4.2.0 on macOS?
>
> I would be interested if the new icon does show up:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns
>
> I created it on Windows with a program called "iConvertIcons" and had no
> chance to test it.
>
> Regards, Matthias
>
>
> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>
>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>
>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>>
>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>
>

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Dave Fisher
Hi Jim -

Works and fixes both 4.1.4 bugs on both 10.7.5 and 10.12.6.

Seems to require Java 6 for Base to work on 10.7.5.

Regards,
Dave

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:08 AM, Jim Jagielski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My latest 4.2.0-dev builds are available at
>
>    http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/>
>
> But these are dmg's not installers.
>
>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Matthias Seidel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> Did you have the opportunity to install 4.2.0 on macOS?
>>
>> I would be interested if the new icon does show up:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns
>>
>> I created it on Windows with a program called "iConvertIcons" and had no
>> chance to test it.
>>
>> Regards, Matthias
>>
>>
>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>
>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>>
>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>>>
>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>>>
>>>> Marcus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Keith N. McKenna
In reply to this post by Patricia Shanahan
On 12/1/2017 8:18 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

> Remember we also have the 4.1.5 branch, which is a lower risk solution
> to some 4.1.4 regressions.
>
> I think it is time to decide whether to release it, and if so, what the
> timing should be relative to the start of the 4.2 beta test. There is
> something to be said for a single announcement so that we can explain
> the relationship.
>
> On 12/1/2017 5:13 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> I see that Pat has committed the security patches to trunk, which is
>> fantastic!
>> Maybe we should take the next few business days and go thru Bugz
>> and see what, if anything, would be low-risk patches to trunk and
>> pencil in, say, Dec 7th as a "code freeze" date for builds...
>>
>> I can provide builds for all 4 platforms.
>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 1:34 AM, Mechtilde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> I like this idea, too. it makes it visible that we aren't dead.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Mechtilde
>>>
>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds
>>>> available
>>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/
>>>> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but
>>>>>> not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the
>>>>>> team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that
>>>>>> this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to
>>>>>> bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test
>>>>> phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising
>>>>> areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>>>
>>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of
>>>>> 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality
>>>>> towards the final release build.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I
>>>>> would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our
>>>>> users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody
>>>>> wants to handle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Mechtilde Stehmann
>>> ## Apache OpenOffice.org
>>> ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
>>> ## Debian Developer
>>> ## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
>>> ## PGP encryption welcome
>>> ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
+1 to this. We need to get out the corrections for the 4.1.4 regressions
soon as possible.



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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Jim Jagielski
I went ahead and copied the 4.1.4 page and created:

    https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.1.5 <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.1.5>

Of course, it needs to be further cleaned up. I can RM if that's OK
with everyone.

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Keith N. McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 12/1/2017 8:18 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>> Remember we also have the 4.1.5 branch, which is a lower risk solution
>> to some 4.1.4 regressions.
>>
>> I think it is time to decide whether to release it, and if so, what the
>> timing should be relative to the start of the 4.2 beta test. There is
>> something to be said for a single announcement so that we can explain
>> the relationship.
>>
>> On 12/1/2017 5:13 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> I see that Pat has committed the security patches to trunk, which is
>>> fantastic!
>>> Maybe we should take the next few business days and go thru Bugz
>>> and see what, if anything, would be low-risk patches to trunk and
>>> pencil in, say, Dec 7th as a "code freeze" date for builds...
>>>
>>> I can provide builds for all 4 platforms.
>>>
>>>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 1:34 AM, Mechtilde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello
>>>>
>>>> I like this idea, too. it makes it visible that we aren't dead.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Mechtilde
>>>>
>>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds
>>>>> available
>>>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/
>>>>> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but
>>>>>>> not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the
>>>>>>> team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that
>>>>>>> this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to
>>>>>>> bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test
>>>>>> phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising
>>>>>> areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of
>>>>>> 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality
>>>>>> towards the final release build.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I
>>>>>> would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our
>>>>>> users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody
>>>>>> wants to handle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marcus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mechtilde Stehmann
>>>> ## Apache OpenOffice.org
>>>> ## Freie Office Suite für Linux, MacOSX, Windows
>>>> ## Debian Developer
>>>> ## Loook, calender-exchange-provider, libreoffice-canzeley-client
>>>> ## PGP encryption welcome
>>>> ## F0E3 7F3D C87A 4998 2899  39E7 F287 7BBA 141A AD7F
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
> +1 to this. We need to get out the corrections for the 4.1.4 regressions
> soon as possible.

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Matthias Seidel
In reply to this post by Jim Jagielski

Despite of the name it could be the icon of the dmg file? I don't know where this icon set is visible... ;-)

Apart from that: +1 for a public beta.

But we should build "real" beta builds, with the appropriate naming/graphics:
https://home.apache.org/~mseidel/AOO-builds/AOO-420-Beta/About%20OpenOffice%20Beta%204.2.0.png

Regards, Matthias


Am 01.12.2017 um 20:08 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
My latest 4.2.0-dev builds are available at

    http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/>

But these are dmg's not installers.

On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Matthias Seidel [hidden email] wrote:

Hi Jim,

Did you have the opportunity to install 4.2.0 on macOS?

I would be interested if the new icon does show up:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns

I created it on Windows with a program called "iConvertIcons" and had no
chance to test it.

Regards, Matthias


Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
(http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs


On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus [hidden email] wrote:

Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.

We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.

And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.

For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.

Marcus


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Marcus (OOo)
Am 02.12.2017 um 13:22 schrieb Matthias Seidel:
> Despite of the name it could be the icon of the dmg file? I don't know
> where this icon set is visible... ;-)
>
> Apart from that: +1 for a public beta.
>
> But we should build "real" beta builds, with the appropriate
> naming/graphics:
> https://home.apache.org/~mseidel/AOO-builds/AOO-420-Beta/About%20OpenOffice%20Beta%204.2.0.png

oh yes, good hint. IMHO the splash screen and start center graphic
should show clearly that this is a beta release. Plus different
filenames for the installation files.

Marcus



> Am 01.12.2017 um 20:08 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> My latest 4.2.0-dev builds are available at
>>
>>      http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/  <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/>
>>
>> But these are dmg's not installers.
>>
>>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Matthias Seidel<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jim,
>>>
>>> Did you have the opportunity to install 4.2.0 on macOS?
>>>
>>> I would be interested if the new icon does show up:
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns
>>>
>>> I created it on Windows with a program called "iConvertIcons" and had no
>>> chance to test it.
>>>
>>> Regards, Matthias
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds available
>>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/  <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>>>
>>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the final release build.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marcus


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Matthias Seidel
Am 02.12.2017 um 14:39 schrieb Marcus:

> Am 02.12.2017 um 13:22 schrieb Matthias Seidel:
>> Despite of the name it could be the icon of the dmg file? I don't
>> know where this icon set is visible... ;-)
>>
>> Apart from that: +1 for a public beta.
>>
>> But we should build "real" beta builds, with the appropriate
>> naming/graphics:
>> https://home.apache.org/~mseidel/AOO-builds/AOO-420-Beta/About%20OpenOffice%20Beta%204.2.0.png
>>
>
> oh yes, good hint. IMHO the splash screen and start center graphic
> should show clearly that this is a beta release. Plus different
> filenames for the installation files.
That is all handled by building for target "openofficebeta"
(sdkoobeta/ooobetalanguagepack).

I am just uploading a fresh Beta build for Windows:
https://home.apache.org/~mseidel/AOO-builds/AOO-420-Beta/

Regards, Matthias

>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>> Am 01.12.2017 um 20:08 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> My latest 4.2.0-dev builds are available at
>>>
>>>      http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/ 
>>> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/>
>>>
>>> But these are dmg's not installers.
>>>
>>>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Matthias
>>>> Seidel<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>
>>>> Did you have the opportunity to install 4.2.0 on macOS?
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested if the new icon does show up:
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I created it on Windows with a program called "iConvertIcons" and
>>>> had no
>>>> chance to test it.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Matthias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev
>>>>> builds available
>>>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ 
>>>>> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together
>>>>>>> but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what
>>>>>>> does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I
>>>>>>> think that this would be an advantage for the project and might
>>>>>>> serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test
>>>>>> phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some
>>>>>> advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to
>>>>>> make it visible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds
>>>>>> of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing
>>>>>> quality towards the final release build.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-)
>>>>>> I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to
>>>>>> our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which
>>>>>> nobody wants to handle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marcus
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

Marcus (OOo)
Am 02.12.2017 um 14:44 schrieb Matthias Seidel:

> Am 02.12.2017 um 14:39 schrieb Marcus:
>> Am 02.12.2017 um 13:22 schrieb Matthias Seidel:
>>> Despite of the name it could be the icon of the dmg file? I don't
>>> know where this icon set is visible... ;-)
>>>
>>> Apart from that: +1 for a public beta.
>>>
>>> But we should build "real" beta builds, with the appropriate
>>> naming/graphics:
>>> https://home.apache.org/~mseidel/AOO-builds/AOO-420-Beta/About%20OpenOffice%20Beta%204.2.0.png
>>>
>>
>> oh yes, good hint. IMHO the splash screen and start center graphic
>> should show clearly that this is a beta release. Plus different
>> filenames for the installation files.
>
> That is all handled by building for target "openofficebeta"
> (sdkoobeta/ooobetalanguagepack).

oha, the last beta is bloody long ago that I've forgotten that this
build target already exists. ;-)

Marcus



>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 20:08 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>> My latest 4.2.0-dev builds are available at
>>>>
>>>>       http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/
>>>> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/>
>>>>
>>>> But these are dmg's not installers.
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Matthias
>>>>> Seidel<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you have the opportunity to install 4.2.0 on macOS?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be interested if the new icon does show up:
>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I created it on Windows with a program called "iConvertIcons" and
>>>>> had no
>>>>> chance to test it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards, Matthias
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev
>>>>>> builds available
>>>>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/
>>>>>> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together
>>>>>>>> but not having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what
>>>>>>>> does the team think about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I
>>>>>>>> think that this would be an advantage for the project and might
>>>>>>>> serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.
>>>>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test
>>>>>>> phase for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some
>>>>>>> advertising areas on the other webpages, and other fine things to
>>>>>>> make it visible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds
>>>>>>> of 4.2.0 with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing
>>>>>>> quality towards the final release build.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-)
>>>>>>> I would like to have a specific level of quality that we give to
>>>>>>> our users. Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which
>>>>>>> nobody wants to handle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marcus


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