Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Andrea Pescetti-2
On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home pages:

Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish,
Danish and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable
50 million people to have an updated translation in their language.
Impressive, and something not to forget.

> c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
> when available.

C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
[archives link here]".

Regards,
   Andrea.
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

jan iversen
Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page until
Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not download
a danish version :-)

If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text to:

>>>
Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen, hvis
du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen er du
meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
[hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at sikre at
du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår ved
at sende en tom mail til
[hidden email]<[hidden email]>

Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks. wiki og
lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
>>>>

The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the only
thing needing translation like wiki.

Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to be
many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n group) ?

rgds
Jan I.



On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home pages:
>>
>
> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish, Danish
> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50 million
> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
> something not to forget.
>
>
>  c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
>> when available.
>>
>
> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
> [archives link here]".
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Rob Weir
In reply to this post by Andrea Pescetti-2
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home pages:
>
>
> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish, Danish
> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50 million
> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
> something not to forget.
>

The website gets a lot of visits.  In one month, we see this much traffic:

www.openoffice.org home page > 2 million visits

de.openoffice.org German homepage >650K visits

fr.openoffice.org French homepage > 330K visits

pl.openoffice.org Polish > 220K visits

no.openoffice.org Norwegian >48K visits

da.openoffice.org Danish > 45K visits

But other languages with more than 10K visits per month include:
Catalan, Thai, Indonesian, Romanian, Korean, Bulgarian, Portuguese and
Latvian.  So I think we could attract volunteers to update those
translations as well.  But it probably is best if we first work on
Danish, Polish, Norwegian and Korean and refine the process and
process documentation, before we ask for many more languages.  Does
this make sense?

-Rob

>
>> c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
>> when available.
>
>
> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on the
> model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives [archives
> link here]".
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Rob Weir
In reply to this post by jan iversen
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:58 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page until
> Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not download
> a danish version :-)
>
> If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text to:
>
>>>>
> Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen, hvis
> du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen er du
> meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
> [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at sikre at
> du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår ved
> at sende en tom mail til
> [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
>
> Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks. wiki og
> lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
>>>>>
>
> The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the only
> thing needing translation like wiki.
>

OK.  I've made this update.

> Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to be
> many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n group) ?
>

I don't think anyone is currently working on the l10n wiki page.  The
page history would indicate if anyone has been editing it recently.


> rgds
> Jan I.
>
>
>
> On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home pages:
>>>
>>
>> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish, Danish
>> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50 million
>> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
>> something not to forget.
>>
>>
>>  c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
>>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
>>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
>>> when available.
>>>
>>
>> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
>> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
>> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
>> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
>> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
>> [archives link here]".
>>
>> Regards,
>>   Andrea.
>>
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

jan iversen
the l10n wiki page was just an example, there seems to be a lot of old
stuff floating around originating from pre-apache times, some of this stuff
has references which are no longer valid. This gives the impression of a
halfway dead product, something many people for sure dont like to get !!

the best marketing is the mouth to ear method and I would not like an
outdated wiki to judge a brilliant product. So between all the
adminstrative apache task it might be a good idea to close down some of
these outdated pages.

This is of course only my opinion (and maybe the fact that I used to do a
lot of marketing for my companies).

jan I.


On 16 October 2012 00:57, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:58 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page
> until
> > Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not
> download
> > a danish version :-)
> >
> > If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text to:
> >
> >>>>
> > Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen, hvis
> > du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen er du
> > meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
> > [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at sikre
> at
> > du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår ved
> > at sende en tom mail til
> > [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
> >
> > Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks. wiki
> og
> > lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
> >>>>>
> >
> > The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the only
> > thing needing translation like wiki.
> >
>
> OK.  I've made this update.
>
> > Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to be
> > many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n
> group) ?
> >
>
> I don't think anyone is currently working on the l10n wiki page.  The
> page history would indicate if anyone has been editing it recently.
>
>
> > rgds
> > Jan I.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
> >>
> >>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home
> pages:
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish,
> Danish
> >> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50
> million
> >> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
> >> something not to forget.
> >>
> >>
> >>  c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
> >>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
> >>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
> >>> when available.
> >>>
> >>
> >> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
> >> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
> >> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
> >> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
> >> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
> >> [archives link here]".
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>   Andrea.
> >>
>
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Rob Weir
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:11 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> the l10n wiki page was just an example, there seems to be a lot of old
> stuff floating around originating from pre-apache times, some of this stuff
> has references which are no longer valid. This gives the impression of a
> halfway dead product, something many people for sure dont like to get !!
>
> the best marketing is the mouth to ear method and I would not like an
> outdated wiki to judge a brilliant product. So between all the
> adminstrative apache task it might be a good idea to close down some of
> these outdated pages.
>
> This is of course only my opinion (and maybe the fact that I used to do a
> lot of marketing for my companies).
>

Start from the main home page:  www.openoffice.org.  The links from
there, and 2 or 3 levels deep, should be good shape.  We know what the
most-common pages are, where the users really go to, and those pages
have received a great deal of attention and updating.

But that still leaves the "long tail" of other webpages that need
updating.  All we need now is a long tail of volunteers .... ;-)

Of course, what you say is correct.  But there is always more to do
than time to do it.  Code to write, tests to run, bugs to fix, etc.
Documentation always suffers.

-Rob

> jan I.
>
>
> On 16 October 2012 00:57, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:58 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page
>> until
>> > Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not
>> download
>> > a danish version :-)
>> >
>> > If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text to:
>> >
>> >>>>
>> > Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen, hvis
>> > du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen er du
>> > meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
>> > [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at sikre
>> at
>> > du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår ved
>> > at sende en tom mail til
>> > [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
>> >
>> > Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks. wiki
>> og
>> > lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
>> >>>>>
>> >
>> > The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the only
>> > thing needing translation like wiki.
>> >
>>
>> OK.  I've made this update.
>>
>> > Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to be
>> > many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n
>> group) ?
>> >
>>
>> I don't think anyone is currently working on the l10n wiki page.  The
>> page history would indicate if anyone has been editing it recently.
>>
>>
>> > rgds
>> > Jan I.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home
>> pages:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish,
>> Danish
>> >> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50
>> million
>> >> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
>> >> something not to forget.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>  c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
>> >>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
>> >>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
>> >>> when available.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
>> >> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
>> >> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
>> >> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
>> >> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
>> >> [archives link here]".
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>   Andrea.
>> >>
>>
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

jan iversen
Got it.

What is the polite policy in the apache OO community.

E.x. when I created my wiki.openoffice.org account (again), I came across a
page that said:
"we recommend you use the same username as on openoffice.org".

Now today openoffice.org does not have a login, so it is kind of obsolite,
I left a note on the "discussion" page, but would it have been more correct
that I changed it ?

Over time I have found that different communities handle these matters very
differently, and as they say, asking cost nothing :-)

have a nice day
jan

On 16 October 2012 01:50, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:11 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > the l10n wiki page was just an example, there seems to be a lot of old
> > stuff floating around originating from pre-apache times, some of this
> stuff
> > has references which are no longer valid. This gives the impression of a
> > halfway dead product, something many people for sure dont like to get !!
> >
> > the best marketing is the mouth to ear method and I would not like an
> > outdated wiki to judge a brilliant product. So between all the
> > adminstrative apache task it might be a good idea to close down some of
> > these outdated pages.
> >
> > This is of course only my opinion (and maybe the fact that I used to do a
> > lot of marketing for my companies).
> >
>
> Start from the main home page:  www.openoffice.org.  The links from
> there, and 2 or 3 levels deep, should be good shape.  We know what the
> most-common pages are, where the users really go to, and those pages
> have received a great deal of attention and updating.
>
> But that still leaves the "long tail" of other webpages that need
> updating.  All we need now is a long tail of volunteers .... ;-)
>
> Of course, what you say is correct.  But there is always more to do
> than time to do it.  Code to write, tests to run, bugs to fix, etc.
> Documentation always suffers.
>
> -Rob
>
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> > On 16 October 2012 00:57, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:58 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page
> >> until
> >> > Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not
> >> download
> >> > a danish version :-)
> >> >
> >> > If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text
> to:
> >> >
> >> >>>>
> >> > Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen,
> hvis
> >> > du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen
> er du
> >> > meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
> >> > [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at
> sikre
> >> at
> >> > du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår
> ved
> >> > at sende en tom mail til
> >> > [hidden email]<[hidden email]
> >
> >> >
> >> > Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks.
> wiki
> >> og
> >> > lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >
> >> > The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the
> only
> >> > thing needing translation like wiki.
> >> >
> >>
> >> OK.  I've made this update.
> >>
> >> > Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to
> be
> >> > many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n
> >> group) ?
> >> >
> >>
> >> I don't think anyone is currently working on the l10n wiki page.  The
> >> page history would indicate if anyone has been editing it recently.
> >>
> >>
> >> > rgds
> >> > Jan I.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home
> >> pages:
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish,
> >> Danish
> >> >> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50
> >> million
> >> >> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive,
> and
> >> >> something not to forget.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>  c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or
> Danish,
> >> >>> saying that translations are now in progress and further
> information,
> >> >>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be
> posted
> >> >>> when available.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers,
> on
> >> >> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n
> is a
> >> >> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is
> a
> >> >> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you
> don't
> >> >> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
> >> >> [archives link here]".
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >>   Andrea.
> >> >>
> >>
>
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Jan Høydahl
In reply to this post by jan iversen
And for the Norwegian web page, I propose this text, inspired from the Danish :)


Apache OpenOffice versjon 3.4
=============================
Siste versjon av OpenOffice er 3.4, men den er foreløpig ikke klar på norsk. Derfor finner du inntil videre kun versjon 3.3 til nedlasting på denne siden.

Vi er et lite team som jobber med å fullføre siste del av oversettelsen av versjon 3.4 til norsk, og hvis du ønsker å være med og bidra er du velkommen! Du finner mer informasjon her: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/translate.html. Du bør også melde deg på mailing-listen for oversettere ved å sende en tom e-post til [hidden email]

Det finnes også andre oppgaver vi behøver hjelp med, som å oppdatere denne web-siden, være med og promotere bruk av OpenOffice i Norge.

(Oslo, oktober 2012)




15. okt. 2012 kl. 22:58 skrev jan iversen <[hidden email]>:

> Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page until
> Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not download
> a danish version :-)
>
> If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text to:
>
>>>>
> Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen, hvis
> du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen er du
> meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
> [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at sikre at
> du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår ved
> at sende en tom mail til
> [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
>
> Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks. wiki og
> lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
>>>>>
>
> The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the only
> thing needing translation like wiki.
>
> Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to be
> many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n group) ?
>
> rgds
> Jan I.
>
>
>
> On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home pages:
>>>
>>
>> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish, Danish
>> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50 million
>> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
>> something not to forget.
>>
>>
>> c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
>>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
>>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
>>> when available.
>>>
>>
>> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
>> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
>> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
>> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
>> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
>> [archives link here]".
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Andrea.
>>

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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Rob Weir
In reply to this post by jan iversen
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:30 AM, jan iversen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Got it.
>
> What is the polite policy in the apache OO community.
>
> E.x. when I created my wiki.openoffice.org account (again), I came across a
> page that said:
> "we recommend you use the same username as on openoffice.org".
>
> Now today openoffice.org does not have a login, so it is kind of obsolite,
> I left a note on the "discussion" page, but would it have been more correct
> that I changed it ?
>
> Over time I have found that different communities handle these matters very
> differently, and as they say, asking cost nothing :-)
>

Generally it works like this:

1) With Subversion and Wiki we have a time machine that allows us to
go back and undo mistakes.  So we don't require pre-approval, or prior
discussion for reversible changes.  In fact we try to avoid
unnecessary discussion and list traffic regarding uncontroversial
changes.

2) So for uncontroversial, reversible changes, the practice is JFDI
(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JFDI)

3) In cases where the contributor has more doubt, on the technical
approach, or on the correctness or acceptability of the change, they
can post a proposal to the mailing list and see if there are any
objections.  For non-urgent changes we wait 72-hours, to ensure that
everyone has an opportunity to read the proposal.   Reviewers can
express support by responding +1 and disapproval by -1.  But this is
not a vote.  You are just waiting to see if there are any serious
objections.  If there are no objections then you go forward.

4) Any Committer can veto a change, for technical reasons, and ask for
it to be reversed.  This is very rare.

5) If there are competing approaches, or serious objections, then we
might have longer discussions or even a vote.  But we try to avoid
votes.  Votes have winners and losers.  We want everyone to be happy
and reach consensus.  But note that there are some formal decisions
that require voting, like approving a release or approving new
Committers.

Regards,

-Rob




> have a nice day
> jan
>
> On 16 October 2012 01:50, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:11 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > the l10n wiki page was just an example, there seems to be a lot of old
>> > stuff floating around originating from pre-apache times, some of this
>> stuff
>> > has references which are no longer valid. This gives the impression of a
>> > halfway dead product, something many people for sure dont like to get !!
>> >
>> > the best marketing is the mouth to ear method and I would not like an
>> > outdated wiki to judge a brilliant product. So between all the
>> > adminstrative apache task it might be a good idea to close down some of
>> > these outdated pages.
>> >
>> > This is of course only my opinion (and maybe the fact that I used to do a
>> > lot of marketing for my companies).
>> >
>>
>> Start from the main home page:  www.openoffice.org.  The links from
>> there, and 2 or 3 levels deep, should be good shape.  We know what the
>> most-common pages are, where the users really go to, and those pages
>> have received a great deal of attention and updating.
>>
>> But that still leaves the "long tail" of other webpages that need
>> updating.  All we need now is a long tail of volunteers .... ;-)
>>
>> Of course, what you say is correct.  But there is always more to do
>> than time to do it.  Code to write, tests to run, bugs to fix, etc.
>> Documentation always suffers.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > jan I.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 16 October 2012 00:57, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:58 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page
>> >> until
>> >> > Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not
>> >> download
>> >> > a danish version :-)
>> >> >
>> >> > If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text
>> to:
>> >> >
>> >> >>>>
>> >> > Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen,
>> hvis
>> >> > du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen
>> er du
>> >> > meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
>> >> > [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at
>> sikre
>> >> at
>> >> > du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår
>> ved
>> >> > at sende en tom mail til
>> >> > [hidden email]<[hidden email]
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks.
>> wiki
>> >> og
>> >> > lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >
>> >> > The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the
>> only
>> >> > thing needing translation like wiki.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> OK.  I've made this update.
>> >>
>> >> > Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to
>> be
>> >> > many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n
>> >> group) ?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I don't think anyone is currently working on the l10n wiki page.  The
>> >> page history would indicate if anyone has been editing it recently.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > rgds
>> >> > Jan I.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home
>> >> pages:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish,
>> >> Danish
>> >> >> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50
>> >> million
>> >> >> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive,
>> and
>> >> >> something not to forget.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or
>> Danish,
>> >> >>> saying that translations are now in progress and further
>> information,
>> >> >>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be
>> posted
>> >> >>> when available.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers,
>> on
>> >> >> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n
>> is a
>> >> >> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is
>> a
>> >> >> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you
>> don't
>> >> >> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
>> >> >> [archives link here]".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Regards,
>> >> >>   Andrea.
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

jan iversen
Thanks!!

I will go ahead and JFDI whenever I see them :-)

and I will try to keep the list traffic down for my part, I am over the
hurdle now and ready to take a big discussion on l10n.

rgds
jan.

On 16 October 2012 14:52, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:30 AM, jan iversen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Got it.
> >
> > What is the polite policy in the apache OO community.
> >
> > E.x. when I created my wiki.openoffice.org account (again), I came
> across a
> > page that said:
> > "we recommend you use the same username as on openoffice.org".
> >
> > Now today openoffice.org does not have a login, so it is kind of
> obsolite,
> > I left a note on the "discussion" page, but would it have been more
> correct
> > that I changed it ?
> >
> > Over time I have found that different communities handle these matters
> very
> > differently, and as they say, asking cost nothing :-)
> >
>
> Generally it works like this:
>
> 1) With Subversion and Wiki we have a time machine that allows us to
> go back and undo mistakes.  So we don't require pre-approval, or prior
> discussion for reversible changes.  In fact we try to avoid
> unnecessary discussion and list traffic regarding uncontroversial
> changes.
>
> 2) So for uncontroversial, reversible changes, the practice is JFDI
> (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JFDI)
>
> 3) In cases where the contributor has more doubt, on the technical
> approach, or on the correctness or acceptability of the change, they
> can post a proposal to the mailing list and see if there are any
> objections.  For non-urgent changes we wait 72-hours, to ensure that
> everyone has an opportunity to read the proposal.   Reviewers can
> express support by responding +1 and disapproval by -1.  But this is
> not a vote.  You are just waiting to see if there are any serious
> objections.  If there are no objections then you go forward.
>
> 4) Any Committer can veto a change, for technical reasons, and ask for
> it to be reversed.  This is very rare.
>
> 5) If there are competing approaches, or serious objections, then we
> might have longer discussions or even a vote.  But we try to avoid
> votes.  Votes have winners and losers.  We want everyone to be happy
> and reach consensus.  But note that there are some formal decisions
> that require voting, like approving a release or approving new
> Committers.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
> > have a nice day
> > jan
> >
> > On 16 October 2012 01:50, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:11 PM, jan iversen <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > the l10n wiki page was just an example, there seems to be a lot of old
> >> > stuff floating around originating from pre-apache times, some of this
> >> stuff
> >> > has references which are no longer valid. This gives the impression
> of a
> >> > halfway dead product, something many people for sure dont like to get
> !!
> >> >
> >> > the best marketing is the mouth to ear method and I would not like an
> >> > outdated wiki to judge a brilliant product. So between all the
> >> > adminstrative apache task it might be a good idea to close down some
> of
> >> > these outdated pages.
> >> >
> >> > This is of course only my opinion (and maybe the fact that I used to
> do a
> >> > lot of marketing for my companies).
> >> >
> >>
> >> Start from the main home page:  www.openoffice.org.  The links from
> >> there, and 2 or 3 levels deep, should be good shape.  We know what the
> >> most-common pages are, where the users really go to, and those pages
> >> have received a great deal of attention and updating.
> >>
> >> But that still leaves the "long tail" of other webpages that need
> >> updating.  All we need now is a long tail of volunteers .... ;-)
> >>
> >> Of course, what you say is correct.  But there is always more to do
> >> than time to do it.  Code to write, tests to run, bugs to fix, etc.
> >> Documentation always suffers.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >> > jan I.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 16 October 2012 00:57, Rob Weir <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:58 PM, jan iversen <
> [hidden email]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that
> page
> >> >> until
> >> >> > Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not
> >> >> download
> >> >> > a danish version :-)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text
> >> to:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> > Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af
> oversættelsen,
> >> hvis
> >> >> > du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen
> >> er du
> >> >> > meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
> >> >> > [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at
> >> sikre
> >> >> at
> >> >> > du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det
> foregår
> >> ved
> >> >> > at sende en tom mail til
> >> >> > [hidden email]<
> [hidden email]
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks.
> >> wiki
> >> >> og
> >> >> > lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
> >> >> >>>>>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the
> >> only
> >> >> > thing needing translation like wiki.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> OK.  I've made this update.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems
> to
> >> be
> >> >> > many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n
> >> >> group) ?
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think anyone is currently working on the l10n wiki page.  The
> >> >> page history would indicate if anyone has been editing it recently.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > rgds
> >> >> > Jan I.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish
> home
> >> >> pages:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually,
> Polish,
> >> >> Danish
> >> >> >> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50
> >> >> million
> >> >> >> people to have an updated translation in their language.
> Impressive,
> >> and
> >> >> >> something not to forget.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>  c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or
> >> Danish,
> >> >> >>> saying that translations are now in progress and further
> >> information,
> >> >> >>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be
> >> posted
> >> >> >>> when available.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages
> volunteers,
> >> on
> >> >> >> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n
> >> is a
> >> >> >> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n
> is
> >> a
> >> >> >> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you
> >> don't
> >> >> >> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
> >> >> >> [archives link here]".
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Regards,
> >> >> >>   Andrea.
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Rob Weir
In reply to this post by Jan Høydahl
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Jan Høydahl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And for the Norwegian web page, I propose this text, inspired from the Danish :)
>
>
> Apache OpenOffice versjon 3.4
> =============================
> Siste versjon av OpenOffice er 3.4, men den er foreløpig ikke klar på norsk. Derfor finner du inntil videre kun versjon 3.3 til nedlasting på denne siden.
>
> Vi er et lite team som jobber med å fullføre siste del av oversettelsen av versjon 3.4 til norsk, og hvis du ønsker å være med og bidra er du velkommen! Du finner mer informasjon her: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/translate.html. Du bør også melde deg på mailing-listen for oversettere ved å sende en tom e-post til [hidden email]
>
> Det finnes også andre oppgaver vi behøver hjelp med, som å oppdatere denne web-siden, være med og promotere bruk av OpenOffice i Norge.
>
> (Oslo, oktober 2012)
>

Done:  http://www.openoffice.org/no/

Thanks,

-Rob

>
>
>
> 15. okt. 2012 kl. 22:58 skrev jan iversen <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page until
>> Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not download
>> a danish version :-)
>>
>> If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text to:
>>
>>>>>
>> Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen, hvis
>> du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen er du
>> meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
>> [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at sikre at
>> du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår ved
>> at sende en tom mail til
>> [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
>>
>> Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks. wiki og
>> lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
>>>>>>
>>
>> The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the only
>> thing needing translation like wiki.
>>
>> Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to be
>> many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n group) ?
>>
>> rgds
>> Jan I.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home pages:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish, Danish
>>> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50 million
>>> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
>>> something not to forget.
>>>
>>>
>>> c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
>>>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
>>>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
>>>> when available.
>>>>
>>>
>>> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
>>> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
>>> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
>>> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
>>> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
>>> [archives link here]".
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>  Andrea.
>>>
>
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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Jan Høydahl
Great!

I think you missed the URL http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/translate.html which should also be clickable :)

--
Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com
Solr Training - www.solrtraining.com

17. okt. 2012 kl. 17:19 skrev Rob Weir <[hidden email]>:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Jan Høydahl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> And for the Norwegian web page, I propose this text, inspired from the Danish :)
>>
>>
>> Apache OpenOffice versjon 3.4
>> =============================
>> Siste versjon av OpenOffice er 3.4, men den er foreløpig ikke klar på norsk. Derfor finner du inntil videre kun versjon 3.3 til nedlasting på denne siden.
>>
>> Vi er et lite team som jobber med å fullføre siste del av oversettelsen av versjon 3.4 til norsk, og hvis du ønsker å være med og bidra er du velkommen! Du finner mer informasjon her: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/translate.html. Du bør også melde deg på mailing-listen for oversettere ved å sende en tom e-post til [hidden email]
>>
>> Det finnes også andre oppgaver vi behøver hjelp med, som å oppdatere denne web-siden, være med og promotere bruk av OpenOffice i Norge.
>>
>> (Oslo, oktober 2012)
>>
>
> Done:  http://www.openoffice.org/no/
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Rob
>
>>
>>
>>
>> 15. okt. 2012 kl. 22:58 skrev jan iversen <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page until
>>> Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not download
>>> a danish version :-)
>>>
>>> If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text to:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>> Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen, hvis
>>> du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen er du
>>> meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
>>> [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at sikre at
>>> du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår ved
>>> at sende en tom mail til
>>> [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks. wiki og
>>> lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the only
>>> thing needing translation like wiki.
>>>
>>> Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to be
>>> many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n group) ?
>>>
>>> rgds
>>> Jan I.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home pages:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish, Danish
>>>> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50 million
>>>> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
>>>> something not to forget.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
>>>>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
>>>>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
>>>>> when available.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
>>>> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
>>>> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
>>>> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
>>>> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
>>>> [archives link here]".
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Andrea.
>>>>
>>

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Re: Should we change the Polish and Danish web pages?

Rob Weir
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Jan Høydahl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Great!
>
> I think you missed the URL http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/translate.html which should also be clickable :)
>

Got it now.

-Rob


> --
> Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
> Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com
> Solr Training - www.solrtraining.com
>
> 17. okt. 2012 kl. 17:19 skrev Rob Weir <[hidden email]>:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Jan Høydahl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> And for the Norwegian web page, I propose this text, inspired from the Danish :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Apache OpenOffice versjon 3.4
>>> =============================
>>> Siste versjon av OpenOffice er 3.4, men den er foreløpig ikke klar på norsk. Derfor finner du inntil videre kun versjon 3.3 til nedlasting på denne siden.
>>>
>>> Vi er et lite team som jobber med å fullføre siste del av oversettelsen av versjon 3.4 til norsk, og hvis du ønsker å være med og bidra er du velkommen! Du finner mer informasjon her: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/translate.html. Du bør også melde deg på mailing-listen for oversettere ved å sende en tom e-post til [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Det finnes også andre oppgaver vi behøver hjelp med, som å oppdatere denne web-siden, være med og promotere bruk av OpenOffice i Norge.
>>>
>>> (Oslo, oktober 2012)
>>>
>>
>> Done:  http://www.openoffice.org/no/
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 15. okt. 2012 kl. 22:58 skrev jan iversen <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>>> Just as a small note a late evening, I actually did not see that page until
>>>> Rob asked if it should be changed, I simply noted that I could not download
>>>> a danish version :-)
>>>>
>>>> If we should add subscription advice, please change the danish text to:
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> Vi er et lille team som arbejder på den sidste del af oversættelsen, hvis
>>>> du er interesseret i at hjælpe med at kvalitetschecke oversættelsen er du
>>>> meget velkommen. Send venligst en mail til vores mailing liste:
>>>> [hidden email] hvis du har nogen spørgsmål. For at sikre at
>>>> du får svarende er det en god ide at tilmelde sig listen, det foregår ved
>>>> at sende en tom mail til
>>>> [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> Bemærk iøvrigt der er meget andet oversættelses arbejde som f.eks. wiki og
>>>> lignende så hvis du har lyst er der nok at tage fat på.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The last sentence "Bemærk...." is just a reminder that AOO isnt the only
>>>> thing needing translation like wiki.
>>>>
>>>> Talking about wiki, is somebody working on a cleanup, there seems to be
>>>> many pages either not updated or pointing strangely (like the l10n group) ?
>>>>
>>>> rgds
>>>> Jan I.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 15 October 2012 22:22, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I previously put a note, in English, on the Polish and Danish home pages:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, and with a few lines of HTML in those pages (actually, Polish, Danish
>>>>> and Norwegian) you managed to recruit new volunteers and enable 50 million
>>>>> people to have an updated translation in their language. Impressive, and
>>>>> something not to forget.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> c) Change the message to something else, perhaps in Polish or Danish,
>>>>>> saying that translations are now in progress and further information,
>>>>>> including calls for more help testing the translation, will be posted
>>>>>> when available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> C is OK; I'd be for putting some text that still engages volunteers, on
>>>>> the model of the Danish one. But let's make it clear that ooo-l10n is a
>>>>> discussion list, by including a notice such as: "Notice: ooo-l10n is a
>>>>> publicly archived discussion list; if you want to be sure that you don't
>>>>> miss answers [subscribe instructions here]; or follow the archives
>>>>> [archives link here]".
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Andrea.
>>>>>
>>>
>