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Suggestions

Joshua Zambrano
Hello, I just wanted to drop off some recommendations for OpenOffice, as a
user of office suites.

-CALC

   - Merge Cells.  No capability to merge cells that I can see, a very
   valuable feature.
   - Turn Off Auto Complete.  Keeps turning everything it can into date
   format, very annoying.  Should be able to turn this off, but option not
   visible that I can see.
   - Remove Hyperlinks.  Hyperlinks shown can't be easily deleted.  Going to
   the hyperlink window does not show an address there.  Should be able to hit
   backspace to remove hyperlink like with MS Excel, but does not work.  This
   forces you to delete hyperlinks and type in the whole link text over again,
   also time-consuming.
   - Mass Format Change.  Highlighting many cells and trying to change the
   format (number/date/text/currency) does not work, you must change each
   individually, a time-consuming issue.
   - Optimize Rows/Columns: Going to optimize row heights or column widths
   does not work.  It does not set them to ideal settings, merely makes them
   even wider.  Let alone the shortcut of clicking upper left cell and then a
   row/column boundary to instantly optimize size like in MS Excel.

-WRITER

   - Can't Open MS Word 2010 .doc Files.  Crashes just trying to open them.


Joshua Zambrano, Jzyehoshua
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Re: Suggestions

Harold Fuchs-8
On 10/11/2010 10:42, Joshua Zambrano wrote:
> Hello, I just wanted to drop off some recommendations for OpenOffice, as a
> user of office suites.
>
> -CALC
>
>     - Merge Cells.  No capability to merge cells that I can see, a very
>     valuable feature.

Look in the Help under Merge; in particular at the entry "merging cells".

>     - Turn Off Auto Complete.  Keeps turning everything it can into date
>     format, very annoying.  Should be able to turn this off, but option not
>     visible that I can see.

Google quickly found Tools>Cell Contents>AutoInput. Uncheck the
AutoInput option.

>     - Remove Hyperlinks.  Hyperlinks shown can't be easily deleted.  Going to
>     the hyperlink window does not show an address there.  Should be able to hit
>     backspace to remove hyperlink like with MS Excel, but does not work.  This
>     forces you to delete hyperlinks and type in the whole link text over again,
>     also time-consuming.

See the Help under Hyperlinks; in particular the entry under "deleting"
and/or the one under "turning off automatic recognition".

>     - Mass Format Change.  Highlighting many cells and trying to change the
>     format (number/date/text/currency) does not work, you must change each
>     individually, a time-consuming issue.

This is simply wrong. Highlight the cells and choose Format>Cells or
right click and choose Format Cells from the context menu. Also applies
to whole rows or columns.

>     - Optimize Rows/Columns: Going to optimize row heights or column widths
>     does not work.  It does not set them to ideal settings, merely makes them
>     even wider.

Evidence please. Please give a detailed example. I have never had a
problem in this area.

> Let alone the shortcut of clicking upper left cell and then a
>     row/column boundary to instantly optimize size like in MS Excel.

Don't know about this in Excel as I haven't used it for about 5 years
(OOo only). If you position the cursor precisely between the column
headings (on a column boundary) it changes to a line with arrows
pointing right and left. Double click now and the column will adjust
itself to the width of the widest entry. Is this what you meant? If not,
please say clearly what you did mean.

> -WRITER
>
>     - Can't Open MS Word 2010 .doc Files.  Crashes just trying to open them.

What version of OOo are you using? The most recent versions will happily
open most docx files which is what I assume you mean. I suggest you
upgrade to the latest 3.2.1 and try again. If you still have no luck
come back here with details.

>
> Joshua Zambrano, Jzyehoshua
>


--
Harold Fuchs
London, England


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Re: Suggestions

Joshua Zambrano
Okay, thanks.

However, to your Merge Cells comment, why isn't this Merge Cells option
available in the Format Cells popup box from right-clicking and going to
Format Cells?  And why not in Right-Click options itself?  It seems they
only placed it in one area, and you have to go to it from the top bar, not
through any other method, like Right-Clicking.

Also, I would've never guessed that something as useful as AutoComplete
would be hidden in a little subsection of the Tools section, and not
somewhere logical, like the Options section.  Again, it seems like they are
hiding major functionality where nobody can find it without knowing the
program's ins and outs.

Default Formatting, apparently it's only visible from one place, the
Right-Click menu.  It's not from the Format Cells popup box itself, and none
of the options like Text allow you to remove it.  I can't understand why
they'd make only one right answer for the whole program to be able to do
this instead of placing the solution in other places as well.

I still stand by my point about a mass format change.  Try changing multiple
cells to different format types.  Now highlight them all and try to change
them to one type.  Doesn't work.  It can't change them all, in fact, it
doesn't appear to change any of them.

For optimal column/row settings, just highlight the row/column headers and
right-click optimal column width.  It has an automatic setting of Add 0.1
and makes columns much wider sometimes.  For some reason it does do it the
right size sometimes and other times does not.  I am still trying to
understand the discrepancy.  It definitely is prone to setting them much
wider than they should be, however.  The double-clicking works for some
cells, and not others.  In one column, for example, I have only a single
digit/letter in any given row, yet the column width gets set to .89-.91.

I am using the latest version of OpenOffice, 3.2.1.  I just downloaded it
yesterday.  I was also using a trial of MS Office 2010, and saved it as a
regular file, which now can't open in OpenOffice.

Well, I appreciate the response, and begin to better understand the intent
to upgrade and update the OOo interface.  Functionality is very difficult to
get to, and whereas with Office would be accessible from multiple areas, is
only available from one spot in OOo programs.  What makes this bad is it's
not even in the most logical places either, but in out of the way ones to my
thinking at least.

Joshua Zambrano

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Harold Fuchs <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On 10/11/2010 10:42, Joshua Zambrano wrote:
>
>> Hello, I just wanted to drop off some recommendations for OpenOffice, as a
>> user of office suites.
>>
>> -CALC
>>
>>    - Merge Cells.  No capability to merge cells that I can see, a very
>>    valuable feature.
>>
>
> Look in the Help under Merge; in particular at the entry "merging cells".
>
>     - Turn Off Auto Complete.  Keeps turning everything it can into date
>>
>>    format, very annoying.  Should be able to turn this off, but option not
>>    visible that I can see.
>>
>
> Google quickly found Tools>Cell Contents>AutoInput. Uncheck the AutoInput
> option.
>
>     - Remove Hyperlinks.  Hyperlinks shown can't be easily deleted.  Going
>> to
>>
>>    the hyperlink window does not show an address there.  Should be able to
>> hit
>>    backspace to remove hyperlink like with MS Excel, but does not work.
>>  This
>>    forces you to delete hyperlinks and type in the whole link text over
>> again,
>>    also time-consuming.
>>
>
> See the Help under Hyperlinks; in particular the entry under "deleting"
> and/or the one under "turning off automatic recognition".
>
>     - Mass Format Change.  Highlighting many cells and trying to change the
>>
>>    format (number/date/text/currency) does not work, you must change each
>>    individually, a time-consuming issue.
>>
>
> This is simply wrong. Highlight the cells and choose Format>Cells or right
> click and choose Format Cells from the context menu. Also applies to whole
> rows or columns.
>
>     - Optimize Rows/Columns: Going to optimize row heights or column widths
>>
>>    does not work.  It does not set them to ideal settings, merely makes
>> them
>>    even wider.
>>
>
> Evidence please. Please give a detailed example. I have never had a problem
> in this area.
>
>
>  Let alone the shortcut of clicking upper left cell and then a
>>    row/column boundary to instantly optimize size like in MS Excel.
>>
>
> Don't know about this in Excel as I haven't used it for about 5 years (OOo
> only). If you position the cursor precisely between the column headings (on
> a column boundary) it changes to a line with arrows pointing right and left.
> Double click now and the column will adjust itself to the width of the
> widest entry. Is this what you meant? If not, please say clearly what you
> did mean.
>
>
>  -WRITER
>>
>>    - Can't Open MS Word 2010 .doc Files.  Crashes just trying to open
>> them.
>>
>
> What version of OOo are you using? The most recent versions will happily
> open most docx files which is what I assume you mean. I suggest you upgrade
> to the latest 3.2.1 and try again. If you still have no luck come back here
> with details.
>
>
>> Joshua Zambrano, Jzyehoshua
>>
>>
>
> --
> Harold Fuchs
> London, England
>
>
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Re: Suggestions

Graham Lauder-2
In reply to this post by Joshua Zambrano
On Wednesday 10 Nov 2010 23:42:29 Joshua Zambrano wrote:
> Hello, I just wanted to drop off some recommendations for OpenOffice, as a
> user of office suites.
>
> -CALC
>
>    - Merge Cells.  No capability to merge cells that I can see, a very
>    valuable feature.

Format > Merge Cells, been there since day one


>    - Turn Off Auto Complete.  Keeps turning everything it can into date
>    format, very annoying.  Should be able to turn this off, but option not
>    visible that I can see.

Tools> Cell Contents ..uncheck autoinput

>    - Remove Hyperlinks.  Hyperlinks shown can't be easily deleted.  Going
> to the hyperlink window does not show an address there.  Should be able to
> hit backspace to remove hyperlink like with MS Excel, but does not work.
> This forces you to delete hyperlinks and type in the whole link text over
> again, also time-consuming.

Um, not sure what you're doing here but it all works as expected in my
version.  Highlight cell, content appears in the formula bar, edit as
required.


>    - Mass Format Change.  Highlighting many cells and trying to change the
>    format (number/date/text/currency) does not work, you must change each
>    individually, a time-consuming issue.

Um select all the cells you want, right click on the selected area, choose
format cells.  Works every time on mine


>    - Optimize Rows/Columns: Going to optimize row heights or column widths
>    does not work.  It does not set them to ideal settings, merely makes
> them even wider.  Let alone the shortcut of clicking upper left cell and
> then a row/column boundary to instantly optimize size like in MS Excel.

Um again, what are you doing?  Format>Row(or Column) >optimal height(width)
the dialog opens and allows you to pad the cell to your requirements or use
the default.


>
> -WRITER
>
>    - Can't Open MS Word 2010 .doc Files.  Crashes just trying to open them.


That's an MS problem with their file format, however the latest version of OOo
handles docx without problems

I will add that OOo is not a free version of MS office and if that's the way
you think of it, then you are missing out on a lot of features in OOo that MSO
doesn't have.  Don't expect OOo to work exactly the same as MSO, it's not
designed that way.

These sort of posts often draw a RTFM (Read The F**king Manual) response,
because you don't come in asking for some assistance, you come in demanding
that the software do things your way when it already does those things but
using a slightly different method.  Take some time to do some discovery.


Cheers
GL

--
Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org

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Re: Suggestions

Joshua Zambrano
What's needed in OpenOffice from what I'm seeing is exactly the kind of
interface revamp that the community projects have made their goal.  MS
Office 2007 and 2010 have been going to a tabbed view, and maybe OpenOffice
should consider such a look.

I see the 2 big issues addressing OOo right now as reorganization and
interoperability.  Features are not organized well in an intuitive
interface, and the design should be simplified into more clearly stratified
and distinguishable categories.  Furthermore, there should be multiple
routes to the same solution.

You should be able to merge cells by going to not only the Format drop-down
menu, but also right-clicking over highlighted cells and seeing a merge
option in the menu there.  You should also be able to go to Format Cells
from the Right-Click menu and see the option to merge cells there too,
perhaps in the Alignment tab.

As someone who's used Office for years, but used OOo sporadically for years
as well, along with Works and even Lotus for a short time, I've come to take
such interoperability for granted.  It is less obvious for less major word
processing, or for the Writer program, but for Calc right now is really
sticking out.

If the program requires 'reading the manual' to figure out even basic
features, let alone the more advanced ones, perhaps it should be considered
the program is not organized or intuitive enough as is.  I would like to see
OpenOffice improve, and all of my points I feel are quite valid.

I did not come here to seek advice.  I came here to make the program better
with good recommendations and viewpoints.  I came to offer my feedback.  The
hostility is a bit disappointing.  I'm hoping it's an isolated case.

Jzyehoshua

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Graham Lauder <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Wednesday 10 Nov 2010 23:42:29 Joshua Zambrano wrote:
> > Hello, I just wanted to drop off some recommendations for OpenOffice, as
> a
> > user of office suites.
> >
> > -CALC
> >
> >    - Merge Cells.  No capability to merge cells that I can see, a very
> >    valuable feature.
>
> Format > Merge Cells, been there since day one
>
>
> >    - Turn Off Auto Complete.  Keeps turning everything it can into date
> >    format, very annoying.  Should be able to turn this off, but option
> not
> >    visible that I can see.
>
> Tools> Cell Contents ..uncheck autoinput
>
> >    - Remove Hyperlinks.  Hyperlinks shown can't be easily deleted.  Going
> > to the hyperlink window does not show an address there.  Should be able
> to
> > hit backspace to remove hyperlink like with MS Excel, but does not work.
> > This forces you to delete hyperlinks and type in the whole link text over
> > again, also time-consuming.
>
> Um, not sure what you're doing here but it all works as expected in my
> version.  Highlight cell, content appears in the formula bar, edit as
> required.
>
>
> >    - Mass Format Change.  Highlighting many cells and trying to change
> the
> >    format (number/date/text/currency) does not work, you must change each
> >    individually, a time-consuming issue.
>
> Um select all the cells you want, right click on the selected area, choose
> format cells.  Works every time on mine
>
>
> >    - Optimize Rows/Columns: Going to optimize row heights or column
> widths
> >    does not work.  It does not set them to ideal settings, merely makes
> > them even wider.  Let alone the shortcut of clicking upper left cell and
> > then a row/column boundary to instantly optimize size like in MS Excel.
>
> Um again, what are you doing?  Format>Row(or Column) >optimal height(width)
> the dialog opens and allows you to pad the cell to your requirements or use
> the default.
>
>
> >
> > -WRITER
> >
> >    - Can't Open MS Word 2010 .doc Files.  Crashes just trying to open
> them.
>
>
> That's an MS problem with their file format, however the latest version of
> OOo
> handles docx without problems
>
> I will add that OOo is not a free version of MS office and if that's the
> way
> you think of it, then you are missing out on a lot of features in OOo that
> MSO
> doesn't have.  Don't expect OOo to work exactly the same as MSO, it's not
> designed that way.
>
> These sort of posts often draw a RTFM (Read The F**king Manual) response,
> because you don't come in asking for some assistance, you come in demanding
> that the software do things your way when it already does those things but
> using a slightly different method.  Take some time to do some discovery.
>
>
> Cheers
> GL
>
> --
> Graham Lauder,
> OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
> http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html
>
> OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.
>
> INGOTs Assessor Trainer
> (International Grades in Open Technologies)
> www.theingots.org
>
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Re: Suggestions

Robert Derman-2
In reply to this post by Graham Lauder-2
Graham Lauder wrote:

> On Wednesday 10 Nov 2010 23:42:29 Joshua Zambrano wrote:
>  
>> Hello, I just wanted to drop off some recommendations for OpenOffice, as a
>> user of office suites.
>>
>> -CALC
>>
>>    - Merge Cells.  No capability to merge cells that I can see, a very
>>    valuable feature.
>>    
>
> Format > Merge Cells, been there since day one
>
>
>  
>>    - Turn Off Auto Complete.  Keeps turning everything it can into date
>>    format, very annoying.  Should be able to turn this off, but option not
>>    visible that I can see.
>>    
>
> Tools> Cell Contents ..uncheck autoinput
>
>  
>>    - Remove Hyperlinks.  Hyperlinks shown can't be easily deleted.  Going
>> to the hyperlink window does not show an address there.  Should be able to
>> hit backspace to remove hyperlink like with MS Excel, but does not work.
>> This forces you to delete hyperlinks and type in the whole link text over
>> again, also time-consuming.
>>    
>
> Um, not sure what you're doing here but it all works as expected in my
> version.  Highlight cell, content appears in the formula bar, edit as
> required.
>
>
>  
>>    - Mass Format Change.  Highlighting many cells and trying to change the
>>    format (number/date/text/currency) does not work, you must change each
>>    individually, a time-consuming issue.
>>    
>
> Um select all the cells you want, right click on the selected area, choose
> format cells.  Works every time on mine
>
>
>  
>>    - Optimize Rows/Columns: Going to optimize row heights or column widths
>>    does not work.  It does not set them to ideal settings, merely makes
>> them even wider.  Let alone the shortcut of clicking upper left cell and
>> then a row/column boundary to instantly optimize size like in MS Excel.
>>    
>
> Um again, what are you doing?  Format>Row(or Column) >optimal height(width)
> the dialog opens and allows you to pad the cell to your requirements or use
> the default.
>
>
>  
>> -WRITER
>>
>>    - Can't Open MS Word 2010 .doc Files.  Crashes just trying to open them.
>>    
>
>
> That's an MS problem with their file format, however the latest version of OOo
> handles docx without problems
>
> I will add that OOo is not a free version of MS office and if that's the way
> you think of it, then you are missing out on a lot of features in OOo that MSO
> doesn't have.  Don't expect OOo to work exactly the same as MSO, it's not
> designed that way.
>
> These sort of posts often draw a RTFM (Read The F**king Manual) response,
> because you don't come in asking for some assistance, you come in demanding
> that the software do things your way when it already does those things but
> using a slightly different method.  Take some time to do some discovery.
>  
The real problem here is that there is no manual to read!  I think that
its about time that the download package came with a good users manual
that explains where all the features and controls are, tells about all
the great features that it has that MS Office lacks, and has a section
that mentions things that people do with MS Office, and then tells you
how to do them with OOo.

MS even though they are the best known software vendor is often sorely
lacking in the area of user support particularly manuals, I remember
when MS-DOS came with a nice 1/2 inch thick manual, as did Win-95, today
Win-7 comes with at best a leaflet.  One way for OOo to distinguish
itself would be to come with a good manual, especially a version
formatted for 8.5x11 so it could be printed out without the horrible
paper waste that comes with manuals formatted 5x7.
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Re: Suggestions

Graham Lauder-2
In reply to this post by Joshua Zambrano
On Thursday 11 Nov 2010 09:32:02 Joshua Zambrano wrote:
> What's needed in OpenOffice from what I'm seeing is exactly the kind of
> interface revamp that the community projects have made their goal.  MS
> Office 2007 and 2010 have been going to a tabbed view, and maybe OpenOffice
> should consider such a look.


The tabbed view is available in Lotus Symphony and MSO copied it off that,
will it make it into OOo? Possibly, Symphony is a fork of OOo 3

>
> I see the 2 big issues addressing OOo right now as reorganization and
> interoperability.  Features are not organized well in an intuitive
> interface, and the design should be simplified into more clearly stratified
> and distinguishable categories.  Furthermore, there should be multiple
> routes to the same solution.

Interestingly I would make the same comment about MSO, probably because I
almost never use it but occasionally I'm forced to and find it rather
frustrating.  By comparison I find OOo's workflow really good and easy to use

>
> You should be able to merge cells by going to not only the Format drop-down
> menu, but also right-clicking over highlighted cells and seeing a merge
> option in the menu there.  You should also be able to go to Format Cells
> from the Right-Click menu and see the option to merge cells there too,
> perhaps in the Alignment tab.

You can of course also click the "Merge and centre cells" icon on the
formatting toolbar and any case you stated: "No capability to merge cells that
I can see." which is demonstrably incorrect

>
> As someone who's used Office for years, but used OOo sporadically for years
> as well, along with Works and even Lotus for a short time, I've come to
> take such interoperability for granted.  It is less obvious for less major
> word processing, or for the Writer program, but for Calc right now is
> really sticking out.

Likewise, started with PFS FirstChoice, went to MSO 4.3, then MSO95 then
StarOffice 5 and on to OOo, played with MSO97, Lotus, Word Perfect, KOffice
and GNU Office along the way.  And I seem to remember MSO95 being unable to
open 97 documents, 97 and 2000 unable to handle 2k3 XML or OOXML from MSO'07
and 10.

I also seem to recall MSO not being able to handle ODF documents but OOo being
able to handle all of the above.  The interoperability is all one way it seems
and not all are being held to the same standard.

>
> If the program requires 'reading the manual' to figure out even basic
> features, let alone the more advanced ones, perhaps it should be considered
> the program is not organized or intuitive enough as is.

That could be said for any Office productivity suite, personally I find it
just fine, and better than the opposition, but that is a product of my
history.  Certainly OOo is no worse than any other product on the market.

> I would like to
> see OpenOffice improve, and all of my points I feel are quite valid.

I disagree, I pointed out how to do everything that you had a problem with
very easily and I could show you how to customise OOo to give you multiple
methods.  So it seems to me reading your mail, that your idea of  "improve" is
to simply to parrot MSO, or IOW, what you are used to.

>
> I did not come here to seek advice.  I came here to make the program better
> with good recommendations and viewpoints.  I came to offer my feedback.
> The hostility is a bit disappointing.  I'm hoping it's an isolated case.

No hostility intended, maybe a slight edge of frustration perhaps, but very
mild all the same.  

All of the things you stated as "doesn't work" or "not capable" all in fact,
demonstrably, do work.  None of your viewpoints or recommendations actually
improve the software, simply make it more "like MSO" as you stated in a number
of places.  I have  proven on innumerable occasions to many people that  OOo
in many ways is superior to MSO so why would we feel the need to parrot it..  

OOo has around 20% market share in Europe and growing fast globally.  As we
get a bigger market share the need to reference everything to MSO will get
less and less and we will make significant and valuable advances in UI design
and none of those will be following MSO, that would be backward steps, and we
don't do following, we do leading.  :)

cheers
GL

--
Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org

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Re: Suggestions

Bob Holtzman-2
In reply to this post by Robert Derman-2
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 02:47:40PM -0600, Robert Derman wrote:

            .............snip............

> The real problem here is that there is no manual to read!  I think
> that its about time that the download package came with a good users
> manual that explains where all the features and controls are, tells
> about all the great features that it has that MS Office lacks, and
> has a section that mentions things that people do with MS Office,
> and then tells you how to do them with OOo.

Have you looked at http://documentation.openoffice.org/? Pick your
manual.

--
Bob Holtzman
Key ID: 8D549279
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
 check the price of the beer"

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Re: Suggestions

Graham Lauder-2
In reply to this post by Robert Derman-2
On Thursday 11 Nov 2010 09:47:40 Robert Derman wrote:

>
> The real problem here is that there is no manual to read!  I think that
> its about time that the download package came with a good users manual
> that explains where all the features and controls are, tells about all
> the great features that it has that MS Office lacks, and has a section
> that mentions things that people do with MS Office, and then tells you
> how to do them with OOo.
>
> MS even though they are the best known software vendor is often sorely
> lacking in the area of user support particularly manuals, I remember
> when MS-DOS came with a nice 1/2 inch thick manual, as did Win-95, today
> Win-7 comes with at best a leaflet.  One way for OOo to distinguish
> itself would be to come with a good manual, especially a version
> formatted for 8.5x11 so it could be printed out without the horrible
> paper waste that comes with manuals formatted 5x7.


There are Manuals at documentation.openoffice.org and yea there could be an
easier way to get to them.  Perhaps at install a prompt "Would you like to
download 'Getting started with OOo'? " during the install process or something
similar.  Perhaps having the Getting Started manual as part of the download
that extracts next to the installer.


Cheers
GL

--
Graham Lauder,
OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ
http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html

OpenOffice.org Migration and training Consultant.

INGOTs Assessor Trainer
(International Grades in Open Technologies)
www.theingots.org

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Re: Suggestions

Paul Douglas Franklin of Yakima UGM
On 11/10/2010 2:20 PM, Graham Lauder wrote:
> easier way to get to them. Perhaps at install a prompt "Would you like to
> download 'Getting started with OOo'? " during the install process or something
> similar.  Perhaps having the Getting Started manual as part of the download
> that extracts next to the installer.
>    
Or perhaps what could extract next to the installer would be a simple
icon pointing to the web site.
--




Paul Douglas Franklin  Computer Manager  http://www.yugm.org/

/Husband of Danette; father of Laurene, Miriam, Tycko, Timothy, Sarabeth, Marie, Dawnita, Anna Leah, Alexander, and Caleb/

Upgrade to the premier Office package today!

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Re: Suggestions

Harold Fuchs-8
In reply to this post by Graham Lauder-2
On 10/11/2010 22:09, Graham Lauder wrote:

> On Thursday 11 Nov 2010 09:32:02 Joshua Zambrano wrote:
>> What's needed in OpenOffice from what I'm seeing is exactly the kind of
>> interface revamp that the community projects have made their goal.  MS
>> Office 2007 and 2010 have been going to a tabbed view, and maybe OpenOffice
>> should consider such a look.
>
> The tabbed view is available in Lotus Symphony and MSO copied it off that,
> will it make it into OOo? Possibly, Symphony is a fork of OOo 3
>
>
<snip>

We don't need a tabbed view. Let the window manager do its job and not
spend precious developer resources implementing a window manager function.

--
Harold Fuchs
London, England


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Re: Suggestions

NoOp-4
In reply to this post by Paul Douglas Franklin of Yakima UGM
On 11/10/2010 02:23 PM, Paul Douglas Franklin wrote:
> On 11/10/2010 2:20 PM, Graham Lauder wrote:
>> easier way to get to them. Perhaps at install a prompt "Would you like to
>> download 'Getting started with OOo'? " during the install process or something
>> similar.  Perhaps having the Getting Started manual as part of the download
>> that extracts next to the installer.
>>    
> Or perhaps what could extract next to the installer would be a simple
> icon pointing to the web site.

F1/Help|Support
<quote>
Documentation
You can download documentation as PDF files, how-tos, and guides from
the OpenOffice.org website at documentation.openoffice.org.
</quote>




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Re: Suggestions

NoOp-4
On 11/10/2010 05:16 PM, NoOp wrote:

> On 11/10/2010 02:23 PM, Paul Douglas Franklin wrote:
>> On 11/10/2010 2:20 PM, Graham Lauder wrote:
>>> easier way to get to them. Perhaps at install a prompt "Would you like to
>>> download 'Getting started with OOo'? " during the install process or something
>>> similar.  Perhaps having the Getting Started manual as part of the download
>>> that extracts next to the installer.
>>>    
>> Or perhaps what could extract next to the installer would be a simple
>> icon pointing to the web site.
>
> F1/Help|Support
> <quote>
> Documentation
> You can download documentation as PDF files, how-tos, and guides from
> the OpenOffice.org website at documentation.openoffice.org.
> </quote>

Sorry, should be:

Help|Support



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Re: Suggestions

mike scott-2
On 11/11/10 01:18, NoOp wrote:
....

>> F1/Help|Support
>> <quote>
>> Documentation
>> You can download documentation as PDF files, how-tos, and guides from
>> the OpenOffice.org website at documentation.openoffice.org.
>> </quote>
>
> Sorry, should be:
>
> Help|Support

Except, firstly, I see here that that sends one to an ubuntu launchpad
page, nothing even mentioning OOo. (Not that that will impact on most
newbies). Just an unnecessary change of theirs I guess.

And secondly, there seems anyway to be a general unwillingness among
newbies to click on the 'help' menu item. At least, judging by some of
the questions on the 'users' list.

Given which, it would IMO be an excellent idea to package the
documentation with the program, and put up a dialogue as part of the
installation procedure telling the user how to access it, which they
have to read (well, scroll to the bottom of, like the licence stuff)
before clicking through.


--
Mike Scott
Harlow, Essex, England

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Re: Suggestions

Paul Gress-2
In reply to this post by Joshua Zambrano
On 11/10/10 03:32 PM, Joshua Zambrano wrote:
> What's needed in OpenOffice from what I'm seeing is exactly the kind of
> interface revamp that the community projects have made their goal.  MS
> Office 2007 and 2010 have been going to a tabbed view, and maybe OpenOffice
> should consider such a look.
>

This is a debatable topic.  I for one am opposed with the "Ribbon" look.  It takes up to much real estate.

Now a good enhancement would be to allow themes to change the GUI interface.  A Classic theme or a Ribbon theme would be good for starters.  Let the user choose their interface.  I can visualize many peoples interpretations just like the Mozilla themes.

That is my suggestion.

Paul
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Re: Suggestions

Robert Derman-2
In reply to this post by Bob Holtzman-2
Robert Holtzman wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 02:47:40PM -0600, Robert Derman wrote:
>
>             .............snip............
>
>  
>> The real problem here is that there is no manual to read!  I think
>> that its about time that the download package came with a good users
>> manual that explains where all the features and controls are, tells
>> about all the great features that it has that MS Office lacks, and
>> has a section that mentions things that people do with MS Office,
>> and then tells you how to do them with OOo.
>>    
> Have you looked at http://documentation.openoffice.org/? Pick your
> manual.
>  
I stick to what I said, the manual should be in the DOWNLOAD package,
you should not have to go back and search for one, and then have to
decide which is the one you need.

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Re: Suggestions

Jonathon Blake
In reply to this post by Joshua Zambrano
On 11/10/2010 08:32 PM, Joshua Zambrano wrote:

> Office 2007 and 2010 have been going to a tabbed view, and maybe OpenOffice

Available if you install the appropriate extension.


>  in an intuitive interface

There is no such thing as an intuitive interface.
The closest match is an interface that one _currently_ knows.

> If the program requires 'reading the manual' to figure out even basic features,

If you don't know that reading the manual prior to using a program ---
any program -- is mandatory prior to  using it, then I suggest that you
request every educational institution you have attended since
kindergarten -- and that includes kindergarten -- to refund the money
that was paid for your education, on the grounds that they failed to
educate you.

> I did not come here to seek advice.  

You were given advice on how to do things, because your requests proved
that you had never read the manual, and quite probably had not used the
program.

>I came here to make the program better with good recommendations and
viewpoints.

For any software, making recommendations is acceptable _after_ one has
taken the time to learn how to use the program.   And that one can show
why the recommendations are suitable for end users than the way the
software currently does things.


jonathon
--
No human will see non-list, non-bulk, non-junk email sent to this address.
It all gets forwarded to /dev/null


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Re: Suggestions

Wm Stewart-2
In reply to this post by Graham Lauder-2

On 11/10/2010 5:09 PM, Graham Lauder wrote:
> OOo has around 20% market share in Europe and growing fast globally.

This would be very good news, and a statistic I can use to great effect.
Can you provide a reference for this?




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Re: Suggestions

Robert Derman-2
In reply to this post by Graham Lauder-2
Graham Lauder wrote:

> On Thursday 11 Nov 2010 09:47:40 Robert Derman wrote:
>
>  
>> The real problem here is that there is no manual to read!  I think that
>> its about time that the download package came with a good users manual
>> that explains where all the features and controls are, tells about all
>> the great features that it has that MS Office lacks, and has a section
>> that mentions things that people do with MS Office, and then tells you
>> how to do them with OOo.
>>
>> MS even though they are the best known software vendor is often sorely
>> lacking in the area of user support particularly manuals, I remember
>> when MS-DOS came with a nice 1/2 inch thick manual, as did Win-95, today
>> Win-7 comes with at best a leaflet.  One way for OOo to distinguish
>> itself would be to come with a good manual, especially a version
>> formatted for 8.5x11 so it could be printed out without the horrible
>> paper waste that comes with manuals formatted 5x7.
>>    
>
>
> There are Manuals at documentation.openoffice.org and yea there could be an
> easier way to get to them.  Perhaps at install a prompt "Would you like to
> download 'Getting started with OOo'? " during the install process or something
> similar.  Perhaps having the Getting Started manual as part of the download
> that extracts next to the installer.
>  
> Cheers
> GL
>  
I visited that site, and the first problem, too much choice!  It is
positively confusing, which manual should I download, should I download
all of them and then delete the ones that aren't helpful?  I still say,
put a good all purpose beginners user manual right in the download
package in order to make it easy.  Don't make newbies have to jump
through hoops!
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Re: Suggestions

twayne at twaynesdomain
In reply to this post by Harold Fuchs-8
In news:[hidden email],
Harold Fuchs <[hidden email]> typed:

> On 10/11/2010 22:09, Graham Lauder wrote:
>> On Thursday 11 Nov 2010 09:32:02 Joshua Zambrano wrote:
>>> What's needed in OpenOffice from what I'm seeing is
>>> exactly the kind of interface revamp that the community
>>> projects have made their goal.  MS Office 2007 and 2010
>>> have been going to a tabbed view, and maybe OpenOffice
>>> should consider such a look.
>>
>> The tabbed view is available in Lotus Symphony and MSO
>> copied it off that, will it make it into OOo? Possibly,
>> Symphony is a fork of OOo 3
> <snip>
>
> We don't need a tabbed view. Let the window manager do its
> job and not spend precious developer resources implementing
> a window manager function.

+1




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