The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

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The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Ahmad Alawsie

Hi all,

 

So while I’m translating, I thought to myself that I can try and test the suggestion mode to see how it works and what can be improved...

 

So in this instance where I suggest a word/phrase, the suggestion goes through and will appear as normal under the text field. However, it appears with an ‘x’ or tick, which seems to break logic. It just does not make sense for a user to suggest a word, and then have the ability to accept/reject the suggestion.

 

As a translator, what I expected for the suggestion mode is that, if a user suggests a translated word/phrase, then it is only logical that the user cannot accept or reject their own suggestion. It would make sense, though, that they have the ability to edit their submitted suggestion/s, or delete it completely. I decided to test this ‘illogical’ function out and this is what it looks like:

 

 

 

I submitted the suggestion (at the bottom of the screenshot), and as you can see, I am given the options to accept or reject the suggestion... yet it is my own suggestion. I accepted the suggestion and it now marks as 1 “accepted” on my profile (my username is skyray1). My profile can be seen in the screenshot below, with the accepted column marking 1 on the ‘Apache OpenOffice 4.x Help’ row.

 

 

 

The screenshot above now shows the number “1” after I had accepted my OWN suggestion. In my opinion, this needs to change, as for logic’s sake, users should submit suggestions for OTHERS to review, and not themselves.

 

Kind regards,

 

Ahmad A

 

 

 

 

 

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RE: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Ahmad Alawsie

This email has the screenshots composed in a word document as the previous email did not display  the screenshots.

 

Kind regards,

 

Ahmad A

From: [hidden email]
Sent: 09 February 2018 01:48
To: [hidden email]
Subject: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

 

Hi all,

 

So while I’m translating, I thought to myself that I can try and test the suggestion mode to see how it works and what can be improved...

 

So in this instance where I suggest a word/phrase, the suggestion goes through and will appear as normal under the text field. However, it appears with an ‘x’ or tick, which seems to break logic. It just does not make sense for a user to suggest a word, and then have the ability to accept/reject the suggestion.

 

As a translator, what I expected for the suggestion mode is that, if a user suggests a translated word/phrase, then it is only logical that the user cannot accept or reject their own suggestion. It would make sense, though, that they have the ability to edit their submitted suggestion/s, or delete it completely. I decided to test this ‘illogical’ function out and this is what it looks like:

 

 

 

I submitted the suggestion (at the bottom of the screenshot), and as you can see, I am given the options to accept or reject the suggestion... yet it is my own suggestion. I accepted the suggestion and it now marks as 1 “accepted” on my profile (my username is skyray1). My profile can be seen in the screenshot below, with the accepted column marking 1 on the ‘Apache OpenOffice 4.x Help’ row.

 

 

 

The screenshot above now shows the number “1” after I had accepted my OWN suggestion. In my opinion, this needs to change, as for logic’s sake, users should submit suggestions for OTHERS to review, and not themselves.

 

Kind regards,

 

Ahmad A

 

 

 

 

 

 



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SUGGESTION MODE LOGIC ERROR......docx (113K) Download Attachment
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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Keith N. McKenna
In reply to this post by Ahmad Alawsie
On 2/8/2018 8:48 PM, Ahmad Alawsie wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
>  
>
> So while I’m translating, I thought to myself that I can try and test
> the suggestion mode to see how it works and what can be improved...
>
>  
>
> So in this instance where I suggest a word/phrase, the suggestion goes
> through and will appear as normal under the text field. However, it
> appears with an ‘x’ or tick, which seems to break logic. It just does
> not make sense for a user to suggest a word, and then have the ability
> to accept/reject the suggestion.
>
>  
>
> As a translator, what I expected for the suggestion mode is that, if a
> user suggests a translated word/phrase, then it is only logical that
> the user cannot accept or reject their own suggestion. It would make
> sense, though, that they have the ability to edit their submitted
> suggestion/s, or delete it completely. I decided to test this
> ‘illogical’ function out and this is what it looks like:
>
Actually it is not illogical at all. My understanding is that that
anyone can make suggestions as a guest but all suggestions need to be
accepted or rejected by a registered translator. One of the permissions
that are granted to translators when they request a pootle account is to
be able to accept suggestions. That is why you were able to accept your
own suggestions.

Regards
Keith

>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> I submitted the suggestion (at the bottom of the screenshot), and as
> you can see, I am given the options to accept or reject the
> suggestion... yet it is my own suggestion. I accepted the suggestion
> and it now marks as 1 “accepted” on my profile (my username is
> skyray1). My profile can be seen in the screenshot below, with the
> accepted column marking 1 on the ‘Apache OpenOffice 4.x Help
> <https://translate.apache.org/ar/aoo40help/>’ row.
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> The screenshot above now shows the number “1” after I had accepted my
> OWN suggestion. In my opinion, this needs to change, as for logic’s
> sake, users should submit suggestions for OTHERS to review, and not
> themselves.
>
>  
>
> Kind regards,
>
>  
>
> Ahmad A
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>


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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Ahmad Alawsie
You misunderstood my case. If i am user “skyray1”, and i make a suggestion, why should the system allow me to accept or reject thay suggesting if i am logged in as user skyray1...?

Kind regards,
Ahmad Alawsie

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 04:51, Keith N. McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2/8/2018 8:48 PM, Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>  
>>
>> So while I’m translating, I thought to myself that I can try and test
>> the suggestion mode to see how it works and what can be improved...
>>
>>  
>>
>> So in this instance where I suggest a word/phrase, the suggestion goes
>> through and will appear as normal under the text field. However, it
>> appears with an ‘x’ or tick, which seems to break logic. It just does
>> not make sense for a user to suggest a word, and then have the ability
>> to accept/reject the suggestion.
>>
>>  
>>
>> As a translator, what I expected for the suggestion mode is that, if a
>> user suggests a translated word/phrase, then it is only logical that
>> the user cannot accept or reject their own suggestion. It would make
>> sense, though, that they have the ability to edit their submitted
>> suggestion/s, or delete it completely. I decided to test this
>> ‘illogical’ function out and this is what it looks like:
>>
> Actually it is not illogical at all. My understanding is that that
> anyone can make suggestions as a guest but all suggestions need to be
> accepted or rejected by a registered translator. One of the permissions
> that are granted to translators when they request a pootle account is to
> be able to accept suggestions. That is why you were able to accept your
> own suggestions.
>
> Regards
> Keith
>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> I submitted the suggestion (at the bottom of the screenshot), and as
>> you can see, I am given the options to accept or reject the
>> suggestion... yet it is my own suggestion. I accepted the suggestion
>> and it now marks as 1 “accepted” on my profile (my username is
>> skyray1). My profile can be seen in the screenshot below, with the
>> accepted column marking 1 on the ‘Apache OpenOffice 4.x Help
>> <https://translate.apache.org/ar/aoo40help/>’ row.
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> The screenshot above now shows the number “1” after I had accepted my
>> OWN suggestion. In my opinion, this needs to change, as for logic’s
>> sake, users should submit suggestions for OTHERS to review, and not
>> themselves.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Ahmad A
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>
>

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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Andrea Pescetti-2
Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
> i make a suggestion, why should the system allow me to accept or reject thay suggesting if i am logged in as user skyray1...?

Pootle is designed for teams working together. Things that do not make a
lot of sense when you are the only translator will make sense if you
think about how a team should work.

For example, if I want to do some translation fixes I will mark them as
suggestions to give another team member the possibility to review and
approve them (even if I could approve them myself). When we both agree
the suggestions are good, then one of the two (he or me) accepts the
suggestions. So the interface is just right in this context.

Regards,
   Andrea.

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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Ahmad Alawsie
The thing is if i, skyray1, accepted the suggestion by skyray1, it will submit the translation and other users will not be able to see that suggestion as that string becomes officially translated unless someone decides to change it. I hope i am not being confusing here but i am seeing ome side to this that perhaps you guys do not see.

Kind regards,
Ahmad Alawsie

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 10:37, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>> i make a suggestion, why should the system allow me to accept or reject thay suggesting if i am logged in as user skyray1...?
>
> Pootle is designed for teams working together. Things that do not make a lot of sense when you are the only translator will make sense if you think about how a team should work.
>
> For example, if I want to do some translation fixes I will mark them as suggestions to give another team member the possibility to review and approve them (even if I could approve them myself). When we both agree the suggestions are good, then one of the two (he or me) accepts the suggestions. So the interface is just right in this context.
>
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
>
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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Ahmad Alawsie
In reply to this post by Andrea Pescetti-2
I have considered the fact that teams work togrther in Pootle, so then what is the point of the user “skyray1” having the ability to accept or reject the suggestion submitted by “skyray1” himself. It contradicts the idea of teamword as i can submit 100 suggestions for 100 different words and accept them all and that doesn’t underline teamwork? However if i was only given the ability to submit a suggestion and only delete it, rather than accepting or reject it, then that allows for the possibility of other translators to accept MY suggestion.

The whole point of MY OWN suggestion is for OTHERS to accept or reject it, i do not wanna be able to do that for my own suggestions. This does not make sense especially considering the ideology that Pootle is built team work based.

However, of course if i “skyray1” submit a suggestion and then log off my account and view that suggestion as a guest, then the accept or reject should be visible im that case as the system will not be able to see if the guest is “skyray1” and of course this could be anyone contributing.

I hope you understood my thought process around this and can consider this...

Kind regards,
Ahmad Alawsie

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 10:37, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>> i make a suggestion, why should the system allow me to accept or reject thay suggesting if i am logged in as user skyray1...?
>
> Pootle is designed for teams working together. Things that do not make a lot of sense when you are the only translator will make sense if you think about how a team should work.
>
> For example, if I want to do some translation fixes I will mark them as suggestions to give another team member the possibility to review and approve them (even if I could approve them myself). When we both agree the suggestions are good, then one of the two (he or me) accepts the suggestions. So the interface is just right in this context.
>
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
>
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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Andrea Pescetti-2
In reply to this post by Ahmad Alawsie
Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
> The thing is if i, skyray1, accepted the suggestion by skyray1, it will submit the translation and other users will not be able to see that suggestion as that string becomes officially translated unless someone decides to change it.

Yes, and this is exactly my example. Imagine you have two translators
into Arabic, skyray1 and xyz.

1. User skyray1 enters suggestions, deliberately keeping them as
suggestions (for the reason above).

2. User xyz reviews them and tells (by e-mail) skyray1 to go ahead (and
let's say he leaves the final acceptance to skyray1, as skyray1 has best
knowledge of that set of strings).

3. At this point, skyray1 goes back to his own suggestions and accepts them.

This is a reasonable workflow used by Pootle teams, and step 3 explains
why it is useful to have this. It if still doesn't make sense to you,
this is still the way other teams work, so there is no reason to break it.

Regards,
   Andrea.

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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

Ahmad Alawsie
No worries, if you say so, i tried to explain my thought process, but the decision is yours. I respect it. Thanks for your cooperation.

Kind regards,
Ahmad Alawsie

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 11:55, Andrea Pescetti <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>> The thing is if i, skyray1, accepted the suggestion by skyray1, it will submit the translation and other users will not be able to see that suggestion as that string becomes officially translated unless someone decides to change it.
>
> Yes, and this is exactly my example. Imagine you have two translators into Arabic, skyray1 and xyz.
>
> 1. User skyray1 enters suggestions, deliberately keeping them as suggestions (for the reason above).
>
> 2. User xyz reviews them and tells (by e-mail) skyray1 to go ahead (and let's say he leaves the final acceptance to skyray1, as skyray1 has best knowledge of that set of strings).
>
> 3. At this point, skyray1 goes back to his own suggestions and accepts them.
>
> This is a reasonable workflow used by Pootle teams, and step 3 explains why it is useful to have this. It if still doesn't make sense to you, this is still the way other teams work, so there is no reason to break it.
>
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
>
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Re: The suggestion mode does not make sense.....

YoheY - OpenOffice
In reply to this post by Andrea Pescetti-2
Hi Andrea and Ahmad,

I guess both points are reasonable while are on the opposite site.

Teamwork should be done as Andrea wrote. But in the special case if one
user should be allowed to accept their (his/her) own suggestions, a
'collective acception from the others' shoould make this option
available. /Not aiming any infrastructure change, it just seemss logical
for me./

On the other hand in case of there is only one translator, this option
is necessary by default, since who else should accept their (his/her)
suggestions (if no one else speaks the given language at that time)?

Regards,

csaba


On 2018-02-09 12:55, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

> Ahmad Alawsie wrote:
>> The thing is if i, skyray1, accepted the suggestion by skyray1, it
>> will submit the translation and other users will not be able to see
>> that suggestion as that string becomes officially translated unless
>> someone decides to change it.
>
> Yes, and this is exactly my example. Imagine you have two translators
> into Arabic, skyray1 and xyz.
>
> 1. User skyray1 enters suggestions, deliberately keeping them as
> suggestions (for the reason above).
>
> 2. User xyz reviews them and tells (by e-mail) skyray1 to go ahead
> (and let's say he leaves the final acceptance to skyray1, as skyray1
> has best knowledge of that set of strings).
>
> 3. At this point, skyray1 goes back to his own suggestions and accepts
> them.
>
> This is a reasonable workflow used by Pootle teams, and step 3
> explains why it is useful to have this. It if still doesn't make sense
> to you, this is still the way other teams work, so there is no reason
> to break it.
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
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