Wordlists for specific industries

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Wordlists for specific industries

Olivier Hallot
Hi,

I have a word list for oil & gas industry in my native language (pt-BR),
and I want to create a dictionary of technical terms.

Can someone kindly point me where to find the recipe for adding such
wordlist to my installation?

Thanks in advance
--
Olivier Hallot
OpenOffice.org L10N project leader for Brazil



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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

thomas.lange

Hi Olivier,

> Hi,
>
> I have a word list for oil & gas industry in my native language (pt-BR),
> and I want to create a dictionary of technical terms.
>
> Can someone kindly point me where to find the recipe for adding such
> wordlist to my installation?
>  

There are two ways:

a) If the number of words is not that large and you only want to use
them for yourself, then create a new user-dictionary and add those words
to it.
If you have already a document with all those words you may look in this
list (or ask to be pointed to) for a macro to create a user-dctionary
from such a document.

b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
extension from it.
In order to do that you first need to create a hunspell dictionary from
it. There is a tool named 'munch' for this. In some Linux distributions
you can fond that as part of a hunspell-tools package. Then, after you
successfully created the dic and aff files you need to create the
dictionary extension with them.

See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extension_Dictionaries
You can also just grab any dictionary extension, rename it to zip, and
view the content to see how it is done.


Regards,
Thomas



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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Jancs
Quoting Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg <[hidden email]>:

>> I have a word list for oil & gas industry in my native language (pt-BR),
>> and I want to create a dictionary of technical terms.
>>
....
> See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extension_Dictionaries
> You can also just grab any dictionary extension, rename it to zip, and
> view the content to see how it is done.

what I think is necessary to mention is the fact that you can not use  
many dictionaries for one language, except you create a custom.dic,  
which is not the language dictionary in its classic meaning.

So the only option is to create full dictionary for pt_BR including  
these specific words also and use (install) one of them - or classic  
pt_BR either extended one.

Hope, I understand rigth the current mechanism of OO.

Janis

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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Olivier Hallot
Thanks for the answers. Actually such wordlist fits better into a
custom.dic and I already found a macro to build this.

regards
Olivier

Jancs escreveu:

> Quoting Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg
> <[hidden email]>:
>
>>> I have a word list for oil & gas industry in my native language (pt-BR),
>>> and I want to create a dictionary of technical terms.
>>>
> ....
>> See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extension_Dictionaries
>> You can also just grab any dictionary extension, rename it to zip, and
>> view the content to see how it is done.
>
> what I think is necessary to mention is the fact that you can not use
> many dictionaries for one language, except you create a custom.dic,
> which is not the language dictionary in its classic meaning.
>
> So the only option is to create full dictionary for pt_BR including
> these specific words also and use (install) one of them - or classic
> pt_BR either extended one.
>
> Hope, I understand rigth the current mechanism of OO.
>
> Janis
>
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>
--
Olivier Hallot
Scinergy Consulting
Tel (021) 2224-3224, (021) 8822-8812
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
http://www.scinergy.com.br
OpenOffice.org L10N project leader for Brazil



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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Mathias Bauer
In reply to this post by thomas.lange
Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:

> b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
> word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
> extension from it.

Hm. But where in the UI would we see the dictionary? I tried it with an
example and I couldn't see any hint for its existence in Tools-Options.
How can users see that the dictionary is used?

Ciao,
Mathias

--
Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
Please don't reply to "[hidden email]".
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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Russell Butler
Mathias Bauer wrote:

> Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
>
>> b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
>> word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
>> extension from it.
>
> Hm. But where in the UI would we see the dictionary? I tried it with an
> example and I couldn't see any hint for its existence in Tools-Options.
> How can users see that the dictionary is used?
>
> Ciao,
> Mathias
>
Not often I can contribute in this exalted company, but as the
dictionary would be installed as an extension, you would see it in the
extension manager. It is not visible in the language settings, other
than that the parent language would be indicated. It could therefore be
enabled and disabled from that interface, if desired.

Regards

Russell

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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

thomas.lange
In reply to this post by Olivier Hallot

Hi Jancs,

> Quoting Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg <[hidden email]>:
>
>>> I have a word list for oil & gas industry in my native language (pt-BR),
>>> and I want to create a dictionary of technical terms.
>>>
> ....
>> See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extension_Dictionaries
>> You can also just grab any dictionary extension, rename it to zip, and
>> view the content to see how it is done.
>
> what I think is necessary to mention is the fact that you can not use  
> many dictionaries for one language, except you create a custom.dic,  
> which is not the language dictionary in its classic meaning.
>
> So the only option is to create full dictionary for pt_BR including  
> these specific words also and use (install) one of them - or classic  
> pt_BR either extended one.

Wrong! (See below)

> Hope, I understand rigth the current mechanism of OO.

The code in lingucomponent/source/spellcheck/spell/sspellimp.cxx loops
over all dictionaries with the appropriate locale. Thus is should work
having multiple dictionaries for the same locale installed.
I also heard there is an English medical dictionary out there that makes
use of this.

Anyway, if it unexpectedly does not work just submit an issue about
that. ^_-


Regards,
Thomas



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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

thomas.lange
In reply to this post by Jancs
Hi Jancs,


> > Quoting Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg <[hidden email]>:
> >
>  
>>> >>> I have a word list for oil & gas industry in my native language (pt-BR),
>>> >>> and I want to create a dictionary of technical terms.
>>> >>>
>>>      
> > ....
>  
>> >> See http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Extension_Dictionaries
>> >> You can also just grab any dictionary extension, rename it to zip, and
>> >> view the content to see how it is done.
>>    
> >
> > what I think is necessary to mention is the fact that you can not use  
> > many dictionaries for one language, except you create a custom.dic,  
> > which is not the language dictionary in its classic meaning.
> >
> > So the only option is to create full dictionary for pt_BR including  
> > these specific words also and use (install) one of them - or classic  
> > pt_BR either extended one.
>  

Wrong! (See below)


> > Hope, I understand rigth the current mechanism of OO.
>  

The code in lingucomponent/source/spellcheck/spell/sspellimp.cxx loops
over all dictionaries with the appropriate locale. Thus is should work
having multiple dictionaries for the same locale installed.
I also heard there is an English medical dictionary out there that makes
use of this.

Anyway, if it unexpectedly does not work just submit an issue about
that. ^_-


Regards,
Thomas







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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Jancs
Quoting Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg <[hidden email]>:

> The code in lingucomponent/source/spellcheck/spell/sspellimp.cxx loops
> over all dictionaries with the appropriate locale. Thus is should work
> having multiple dictionaries for the same locale installed.
> I also heard there is an English medical dictionary out there that makes
> use of this.

actually, there is some evidence about it (allthough, not acquired by  
me) that a change in describing xml file let to installation of two  
spellcheck extension of the same language. I did not tried to  
reproduce yet, but a worrying thoght is that for that case there were  
2 sets of affixes and they _were not_ identical, as there were changes  
in the latest version.

Janis

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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Mathias Bauer
In reply to this post by Russell Butler
Russell Butler wrote:

> Mathias Bauer wrote:
>> Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
>>
>>> b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
>>> word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
>>> extension from it.
>>
>> Hm. But where in the UI would we see the dictionary? I tried it with an
>> example and I couldn't see any hint for its existence in Tools-Options.
>> How can users see that the dictionary is used?
>>
>> Ciao,
>> Mathias
>>
> Not often I can contribute in this exalted company, but as the
> dictionary would be installed as an extension, you would see it in the
> extension manager. It is not visible in the language settings, other
> than that the parent language would be indicated. It could therefore be
> enabled and disabled from that interface, if desired.

Sure, but this is probably not where users will look for it. I was
aiming at a discussion whether we should extend our configuration schema
to allow for showing which dictionariesn are used (and not only that
there is at least one dictionary for a particular language).

Regards,
Mathias

--
Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
Please don't reply to "[hidden email]".
I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it.


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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Marcin Miłkowski
Mathias Bauer pisze:

> Russell Butler wrote:
>
>> Mathias Bauer wrote:
>>> Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
>>>
>>>> b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
>>>> word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
>>>> extension from it.
>>> Hm. But where in the UI would we see the dictionary? I tried it with an
>>> example and I couldn't see any hint for its existence in Tools-Options.
>>> How can users see that the dictionary is used?
>>>
>>> Ciao,
>>> Mathias
>>>
>> Not often I can contribute in this exalted company, but as the
>> dictionary would be installed as an extension, you would see it in the
>> extension manager. It is not visible in the language settings, other
>> than that the parent language would be indicated. It could therefore be
>> enabled and disabled from that interface, if desired.
>
> Sure, but this is probably not where users will look for it. I was
> aiming at a discussion whether we should extend our configuration schema
> to allow for showing which dictionariesn are used (and not only that
> there is at least one dictionary for a particular language).

Why wouldn't they look there? I mean for many languages, the first thing
that happens after you install OpenOffice.org is checking for updates,
and you get a prompt to update the dictionaries - this is why so many
dictionary extensions have so many downloads at the extension site.
After you do that, you are shown the extension manager, so you see the
dictionaries there.

I know it doesn't happen for English, but that's not the only language
out there ;)


Regards
Marcin

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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Mathias Bauer
Marcin Miłkowski wrote:

> Mathias Bauer pisze:
>> Russell Butler wrote:
>>
>>> Mathias Bauer wrote:
>>>> Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
>>>>> word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
>>>>> extension from it.
>>>> Hm. But where in the UI would we see the dictionary? I tried it with an
>>>> example and I couldn't see any hint for its existence in Tools-Options.
>>>> How can users see that the dictionary is used?
>>>>
>>>> Ciao,
>>>> Mathias
>>>>
>>> Not often I can contribute in this exalted company, but as the
>>> dictionary would be installed as an extension, you would see it in the
>>> extension manager. It is not visible in the language settings, other
>>> than that the parent language would be indicated. It could therefore be
>>> enabled and disabled from that interface, if desired.
>>
>> Sure, but this is probably not where users will look for it. I was
>> aiming at a discussion whether we should extend our configuration schema
>> to allow for showing which dictionariesn are used (and not only that
>> there is at least one dictionary for a particular language).
>
> Why wouldn't they look there? I mean for many languages, the first thing
> that happens after you install OpenOffice.org is checking for updates,
> and you get a prompt to update the dictionaries - this is why so many
> dictionary extensions have so many downloads at the extension site.
> After you do that, you are shown the extension manager, so you see the
> dictionaries there.
>
> I know it doesn't happen for English, but that's not the only language
> out there ;)

Well, yes, let's see. Maybe I'm just seeing things. :-)

Regards,
Mathias

--
Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
Please don't reply to "[hidden email]".
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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Marcin Miłkowski
Mathias Bauer pisze:

> Marcin Miłkowski wrote:
>
>> Mathias Bauer pisze:
>>> Russell Butler wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mathias Bauer wrote:
>>>>> Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
>>>>>> word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
>>>>>> extension from it.
>>>>> Hm. But where in the UI would we see the dictionary? I tried it with an
>>>>> example and I couldn't see any hint for its existence in Tools-Options.
>>>>> How can users see that the dictionary is used?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>> Mathias
>>>>>
>>>> Not often I can contribute in this exalted company, but as the
>>>> dictionary would be installed as an extension, you would see it in the
>>>> extension manager. It is not visible in the language settings, other
>>>> than that the parent language would be indicated. It could therefore be
>>>> enabled and disabled from that interface, if desired.
>>> Sure, but this is probably not where users will look for it. I was
>>> aiming at a discussion whether we should extend our configuration schema
>>> to allow for showing which dictionariesn are used (and not only that
>>> there is at least one dictionary for a particular language).
>> Why wouldn't they look there? I mean for many languages, the first thing
>> that happens after you install OpenOffice.org is checking for updates,
>> and you get a prompt to update the dictionaries - this is why so many
>> dictionary extensions have so many downloads at the extension site.
>> After you do that, you are shown the extension manager, so you see the
>> dictionaries there.
>>
>> I know it doesn't happen for English, but that's not the only language
>> out there ;)
>
> Well, yes, let's see. Maybe I'm just seeing things. :-)

Well, it's not such a bad idea to redesign the Extension Manager to
create a separate tab for dictionaries only. Another glitch is that
under Unix systems, you cannot update your dictionary extension (well,
you can, but you're not told you can! - automatic update doesn't try to
download a new version and install it for your account).

Regards
Marcin

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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Mathias Bauer
Marcin Miłkowski wrote:

> Mathias Bauer pisze:
>> Marcin Miłkowski wrote:
>>
>>> Mathias Bauer pisze:
>>>> Russell Butler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mathias Bauer wrote:
>>>>>> Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
>>>>>>> word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
>>>>>>> extension from it.
>>>>>> Hm. But where in the UI would we see the dictionary? I tried it with an
>>>>>> example and I couldn't see any hint for its existence in Tools-Options.
>>>>>> How can users see that the dictionary is used?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>> Mathias
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not often I can contribute in this exalted company, but as the
>>>>> dictionary would be installed as an extension, you would see it in the
>>>>> extension manager. It is not visible in the language settings, other
>>>>> than that the parent language would be indicated. It could therefore be
>>>>> enabled and disabled from that interface, if desired.
>>>> Sure, but this is probably not where users will look for it. I was
>>>> aiming at a discussion whether we should extend our configuration schema
>>>> to allow for showing which dictionariesn are used (and not only that
>>>> there is at least one dictionary for a particular language).
>>> Why wouldn't they look there? I mean for many languages, the first thing
>>> that happens after you install OpenOffice.org is checking for updates,
>>> and you get a prompt to update the dictionaries - this is why so many
>>> dictionary extensions have so many downloads at the extension site.
>>> After you do that, you are shown the extension manager, so you see the
>>> dictionaries there.
>>>
>>> I know it doesn't happen for English, but that's not the only language
>>> out there ;)
>>
>> Well, yes, let's see. Maybe I'm just seeing things. :-)
>
> Well, it's not such a bad idea to redesign the Extension Manager to
> create a separate tab for dictionaries only. Another glitch is that
> under Unix systems, you cannot update your dictionary extension (well,
> you can, but you're not told you can! - automatic update doesn't try to
> download a new version and install it for your account).

If the dictionary is installed for a single user, the update should work
(at least in Sun builds). If the dictionary is installed for all users,
it must be downloaded and installed separately with admin rights.
Another option would be to deploy the extensions as native packages (as
for some Firefox extensions) containing a script with a custom action
that installs the extension.

Regards,
Mathias

--
Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
Please don't reply to "[hidden email]".
I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it.


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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Marcin Miłkowski
Mathias Bauer pisze:

> Marcin Miłkowski wrote:
>
>> Mathias Bauer pisze:
>>> Marcin Miłkowski wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mathias Bauer pisze:
>>>>> Russell Butler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mathias Bauer wrote:
>>>>>>> Thomas Lange - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> b) If you list is larger and especially if you want to provide that
>>>>>>>> word-list for other as well, then you should create a dictionary
>>>>>>>> extension from it.
>>>>>>> Hm. But where in the UI would we see the dictionary? I tried it with an
>>>>>>> example and I couldn't see any hint for its existence in Tools-Options.
>>>>>>> How can users see that the dictionary is used?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ciao,
>>>>>>> Mathias
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not often I can contribute in this exalted company, but as the
>>>>>> dictionary would be installed as an extension, you would see it in the
>>>>>> extension manager. It is not visible in the language settings, other
>>>>>> than that the parent language would be indicated. It could therefore be
>>>>>> enabled and disabled from that interface, if desired.
>>>>> Sure, but this is probably not where users will look for it. I was
>>>>> aiming at a discussion whether we should extend our configuration schema
>>>>> to allow for showing which dictionariesn are used (and not only that
>>>>> there is at least one dictionary for a particular language).
>>>> Why wouldn't they look there? I mean for many languages, the first thing
>>>> that happens after you install OpenOffice.org is checking for updates,
>>>> and you get a prompt to update the dictionaries - this is why so many
>>>> dictionary extensions have so many downloads at the extension site.
>>>> After you do that, you are shown the extension manager, so you see the
>>>> dictionaries there.
>>>>
>>>> I know it doesn't happen for English, but that's not the only language
>>>> out there ;)
>>> Well, yes, let's see. Maybe I'm just seeing things. :-)
>> Well, it's not such a bad idea to redesign the Extension Manager to
>> create a separate tab for dictionaries only. Another glitch is that
>> under Unix systems, you cannot update your dictionary extension (well,
>> you can, but you're not told you can! - automatic update doesn't try to
>> download a new version and install it for your account).
>
> If the dictionary is installed for a single user, the update should work
> (at least in Sun builds). If the dictionary is installed for all users,
> it must be downloaded and installed separately with admin rights.

If you are using Sun builds under Linux, you have to be root to install
the build (rpm doesn't normally work for non-root users), and, as a
result, the bundled dictionary extensions are installed for all users
and as an individual user, you're not told there are newer versions.

So the update doesn't work for the individual user - which is not very
convenient, as admins don't normally run application software under root
accounts. As a result, they won't even know there are newer versions of
the bundled extensions.

> Another option would be to deploy the extensions as native packages (as
> for some Firefox extensions) containing a script with a custom action
> that installs the extension.

I don't think this is needed. We just need a mechanism of overriding the
dictionaries installed for all users by dictionaries installed for
individual users.

Regards
Marcin

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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Mathias Bauer
Marcin Miłkowski wrote:

>>> Another glitch is that
>>> under Unix systems, you cannot update your dictionary extension (well,
>>> you can, but you're not told you can! - automatic update doesn't try to
>>> download a new version and install it for your account).
>>
>> If the dictionary is installed for a single user, the update should work
>> (at least in Sun builds). If the dictionary is installed for all users,
>> it must be downloaded and installed separately with admin rights.
>
> If you are using Sun builds under Linux, you have to be root to install
> the build (rpm doesn't normally work for non-root users), and, as a
> result, the bundled dictionary extensions are installed for all users
> and as an individual user, you're not told there are newer versions.

I will ask the UNO developers about that.

> So the update doesn't work for the individual user - which is not very
> convenient, as admins don't normally run application software under root
> accounts. As a result, they won't even know there are newer versions of
> the bundled extensions.

The update inside OOo doesn't, yes. Updates can be installed by an
external process (not by OOo itself), so there is another option: OOo
could start this external process and try to get super user rights for
it. This should work on all modern consumer Linux distributions.

>> Another option would be to deploy the extensions as native packages (as
>> for some Firefox extensions) containing a script with a custom action
>> that installs the extension.
>
> I don't think this is needed. We just need a mechanism of overriding the
> dictionaries installed for all users by dictionaries installed for
> individual users.

I don't like the mixed state with bundled extensions and updates
installed per user - that's a mess. I think I will ask the UNO
developers what they think about the "sudo" approach.

Regards,
Mathias

--
Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
Please don't reply to "[hidden email]".
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Re: Wordlists for specific industries

Mathias Bauer
Mathias Bauer wrote:

> Marcin Miłkowski wrote:
>
>>>> Another glitch is that
>>>> under Unix systems, you cannot update your dictionary extension (well,
>>>> you can, but you're not told you can! - automatic update doesn't try to
>>>> download a new version and install it for your account).
>>>
>>> If the dictionary is installed for a single user, the update should work
>>> (at least in Sun builds). If the dictionary is installed for all users,
>>> it must be downloaded and installed separately with admin rights.
>>
>> If you are using Sun builds under Linux, you have to be root to install
>> the build (rpm doesn't normally work for non-root users), and, as a
>> result, the bundled dictionary extensions are installed for all users
>> and as an individual user, you're not told there are newer versions.
>
> I will ask the UNO developers about that.
>
>> So the update doesn't work for the individual user - which is not very
>> convenient, as admins don't normally run application software under root
>> accounts. As a result, they won't even know there are newer versions of
>> the bundled extensions.
>
> The update inside OOo doesn't, yes. Updates can be installed by an
> external process (not by OOo itself), so there is another option: OOo
> could start this external process and try to get super user rights for
> it. This should work on all modern consumer Linux distributions.

I forgot to mention: when an extension is installed via extension
manager, OOo does exactly this: the extension will be run in an external
process. I don't know if the same happens when extensions are updated,
but that should be possible, I assume.

Regards,
Mathias

--
Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer
OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS
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