citation GUI?

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citation GUI?

Bruce D'Arcus

Does anyone have any thoughts on the GUI screenshots I posted here  
for the new Word 2007 citation support?

<http://netapps.muohio.edu/blogs/darcusb/darcusb/archives/2006/06/13/ 
multi-reference-citations-in-word-2007>

I'm trying to think through, for example, how we might address the  
following limitation.

> In general, this is well-done. However, it makes a problematic  
> assumption that a user will only ever be using page numbers to  
> identify a location within a document. In law and history, they  
> often use paragraph, and even line, numbers. And sometimes they are  
> combined. This is why in ODF we have separate elements—cite:detail—
> to encode this.

Relevant image is:

<http://www.users.muohio.edu/darcusb/images/cites/word-edit- 
citation.jpg>

The ODF support avoids any limitations at the XML level, it might be  
a little tricky in the GUI.

Bruce
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Re: citation GUI?

David Wilson-7
Bruce,

        I think the user will need to select the location type so, where in the
word-edit-citation.jpg pic the fixed 'Pages' word is placed a pick list would
be placed to allow the user  to select the locator type.

Along with  paragraph, and even line, numbers. There is time-in
(hours,minutes, seconds) for audio and video. Manuscripts references can
include line number in column number on verso or recto (for the side of the
page)

But rather than have variable multi- part locators in the GUI we can keep the
single input box but with conventions such as time = hh:mm:ss or Manuscripts
=line#:Column#:[R/C]

These format hints could be shown on the GUI panel

David



On Tuesday 20 June 2006 6:04 am, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:

> Does anyone have any thoughts on the GUI screenshots I posted here
> for the new Word 2007 citation support?
>
> <http://netapps.muohio.edu/blogs/darcusb/darcusb/archives/2006/06/13/
> multi-reference-citations-in-word-2007>
>
> I'm trying to think through, for example, how we might address the
> following limitation.
>
> > In general, this is well-done. However, it makes a problematic
> > assumption that a user will only ever be using page numbers to
> > identify a location within a document. In law and history, they
> > often use paragraph, and even line, numbers. And sometimes they are
> > combined. This is why in ODF we have separate elements—cite:detail—
> > to encode this.
>
> Relevant image is:
>
> <http://www.users.muohio.edu/darcusb/images/cites/word-edit-
> citation.jpg>
>
> The ODF support avoids any limitations at the XML level, it might be
> a little tricky in the GUI.
>
> Bruce
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
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--
-------------------
David N. Wilson
Co-Project Lead for the Bibliographic
OpenOffice Project
http://bibliographic.openoffice.org

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Re: citation GUI?

Bruce D'Arcus

On Jun 19, 2006, at 7:03 PM, David Wilson wrote:

> But rather than have variable multi- part locators in the GUI we can
> keep the
> single input box but with conventions such as time = hh:mm:ss or
> Manuscripts
> =line#:Column#:[R/C]

Yeah, that's one possibility, though could get problematic when you
consider internationalization. E.g. "page=23; line=14" *might* be OK
for an English speaker, but not for anyone else. And then you need code
to handle all that, and conventions.

And consider, too, that most people would only ever deal with pages (I
have used paragraphs, but very rarely), so we can't make the general
case more difficult to accommodate the edge case.

In any case, worth further consideration.

BTW, on a related note, in the current ODF proposal we have:

     <cite:biblioref cite:key="doe99a" cite:style="year">
       <cite:detail cite:units="pages" cite:begin="23" cite:end="24"/>
     </cite:biblioref>

On further thought, I wonder if we shouldn't make things a little
easier and just do:

     <cite:biblioref cite:key="doe99a" cite:style="year">
       <cite:detail cite:units="pages" cite:value="23-24"/>
     </cite:biblioref>

... or even:

     <cite:biblioref cite:key="doe99a" cite:style="year"
cite:pages="23-24"/>

The latter would require a standard list of attributes there, though,
which might be a little problematic.

Bruce

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Re: citation GUI?

David Wilson-7
On Tuesday 20 June 2006 9:21 am, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:

> On further thought, I wonder if we shouldn't make things a little
> easier and just do:
>
>      <cite:biblioref cite:key="doe99a" cite:style="year">
>        <cite:detail cite:units="pages" cite:value="23-24"/>
>      </cite:biblioref>
>
> ... or even:
>
>      <cite:biblioref cite:key="doe99a" cite:style="year"
> cite:pages="23-24"/>
>
> The latter would require a standard list of attributes there, though,
> which might be a little problematic.

If detail-units really means location-units I think it may be worth
preserving.

I think we need a location data level even when we have not yet thought up all
the location types. Wouldn't it make it easier  to process a given style -

  Author, (publishing details), location

If location-units are an either a separate list (possibly user extensible) or
at least gathered in one place in the code.

It terms of program maintenance if would be nicer to add

 LP record=A/B side: Track#

to the types of locations than to just add in at 'the right place' in the CSL
code.


David

 

-------------------
David N. Wilson
Co-Project Lead for the Bibliographic
OpenOffice Project
http://bibliographic.openoffice.org

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Re: citation GUI?

Bruce D'Arcus

On Jun 19, 2006, at 8:44 PM, David Wilson wrote:

> If location-units are an either a separate list (possibly user
> extensible) or
> at least gathered in one place in the code.

Right now, the list is controlled in the schema, which I think
important for future interoperability.

> It terms of program maintenance if would be nicer to add
>
>  LP record=A/B side: Track#

Aside: I doubt there'd be need for this use case. The track info
belongs to the bibliographic record; not the citation.

> to the types of locations than to just add in at 'the right place' in
> the CSL
> code.

Am not following.

There are two separate issues:

1)  the primary one I was getting at is whether it is really necessary
to parse numbers (begin/end) or whether better to just have a simple
"value" attribute.

2)  whether the locators ought to be attributes of cite:biblioref, or
(as they are now) elements.

I'm thinking the answer to 2 is to keep it as is, but to change 1. This
is so in part for easier future interoperability with Open XML, and
also because it better matches how user input would work (we would have
a single field).

Bruce

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