future of OpenOffice

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future of OpenOffice

suhail ansari-2
Hi,

  My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice community.

OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of downloads. My suggestion is that Apache software foundation should talk to the document foundation and ask them to merge their foundation with Apache software foundation because Apache is world's biggest open source software foundation and if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one product (OpenOffice). The ASF has many popular open source software products like hadoop, tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good for both ASF and the document foundation to work together.


Suhail Ansari

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Re: future of OpenOffice

FR web forum
Already discussed
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201608.mbox/%3CCALR982mG0baX7i4StBissjVOYDOgfb%3DVMzgOs-0%3DqezMZyi2cg%40mail.gmail.com%3E

----- Mail original -----
De: "suhail ansari" <[hidden email]>
À: [hidden email]
Envoyé: Mardi 10 Janvier 2017 19:43:04
Objet: future of OpenOffice

Hi,

  My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice community.

OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of downloads. My suggestion is that Apache software foundation should talk to the document foundation and ask them to merge their foundation with Apache software foundation because Apache is world's biggest open source software foundation and if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one product (OpenOffice). The ASF has many popular open source software products like hadoop, tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good for both ASF and the document foundation to work together.


Suhail Ansari


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Re: future of OpenOffice

Hagar Delest-2
CCed to OP (not subscribed to the list).


Le 10/01/2017 à 20:21, FR web forum a écrit :

> Already discussed
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201608.mbox/%3CCALR982mG0baX7i4StBissjVOYDOgfb%3DVMzgOs-0%3DqezMZyi2cg%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> ----- Mail original -----
> De: "suhail ansari" <[hidden email]>
> À: [hidden email]
> Envoyé: Mardi 10 Janvier 2017 19:43:04
> Objet: future of OpenOffice
>
> Hi,
>
>    My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice community.
>
> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of downloads. My suggestion is that Apache software foundation should talk to the document foundation and ask them to merge their foundation with Apache software foundation because Apache is world's biggest open source software foundation and if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one product (OpenOffice). The ASF has many popular open source software products like hadoop, tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good for both ASF and the document foundation to work together.
>
>
> Suhail Ansari
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: future of OpenOffice

Peter Kovacs
In reply to this post by suhail ansari-2
I think we are not in a position to successfully ask what you would like us
to do. In the matter of the fact I do not believe LO does have much respect
for us, and some of us are deeply hurt.
Maybe the same on LO side.

And I am not convinced this will heal just quickly. The simplest solution
is to be patient. The complicated is to find a way to heal the wounds that
are there.

Have fun!
Peter

suhail ansari <[hidden email]> schrieb am Di., 10. Jan. 2017,
19:55:

> Hi,
>
>   My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice community.
>
> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of downloads. My
> suggestion is that Apache software foundation should talk to the document
> foundation and ask them to merge their foundation with Apache software
> foundation because Apache is world's biggest open source software
> foundation and if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one
> product (OpenOffice). The ASF has many popular open source software
> products like hadoop, tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good for both ASF
> and the document foundation to work together.
>
>
> Suhail Ansari
>
> --

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Re: future of OpenOffice

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by suhail ansari-2
> From: suhail ansari [mailto:[hidden email]]

>   My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for
> OpenOffice community.
>
> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of
> downloads. My suggestion is that Apache software foundation
> should talk to the document foundation and ask them to merge
> their foundation with Apache software foundation because

-1

The original does not have to speak with the fork.
I will never forget how often LO members of OO have spoken badly.

> Apache is world's biggest open source software foundation and
> if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one
> product (OpenOffice).

-1

I am only a committer, but I will never agree. If the TDF join the ASF I will
leave the ASF.

> It
> will be good for both ASF and the document foundation to work
> together.

But not good for the quality of the product OpenOffice. We can see at LO every day
what is the hurried development for the quality.



Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: future of OpenOffice

Akos
In reply to this post by suhail ansari-2
Hi,

it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
merged in OpenOffice.
The single way is that OpenOffice can merge in LibreOffice, more exactly
the OpenOffice.org is redirected to LibreOffice.org, because the OO code
is outdated compared with LO code.
The LibreOffice brand now is more popular than OpenOffice, and some
other facts: LibreOffice have few hundred new features that OO don't
have, LibreOffice have a cloud suit (LibreOffice Online) etc.
You can compare the development trends:
https://www.openhub.net/p/openoffice (include webpage and wiki)
https://www.openhub.net/p/libreoffice (only application code)

Based on financial reports, TDF has income equal to Apache Foundation,
and TDF spend all money to LibreOffice, but Apache only a little part
from their income spend for OO.

2017. 01. 10. 20:43 keltezéssel, suhail ansari írta:

> Hi,
>
>   My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice community.
>
> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of downloads. My suggestion is that Apache software foundation should talk to the document foundation and ask them to merge their foundation with Apache software foundation because Apache is world's biggest open source software foundation and if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one product (OpenOffice). The ASF has many popular open source software products like hadoop, tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good for both ASF and the document foundation to work together.
>
>
> Suhail Ansari
>
>



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Re: future of OpenOffice

Jörg Schmidt-2

> From: Nagy Ákos [mailto:[hidden email]]

> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
> merged in OpenOffice.
> The single way is that OpenOffice can merge in LibreOffice,
> more exactly
> the OpenOffice.org is redirected to LibreOffice.org, because
> the OO code
> is outdated compared with LO code.
> The LibreOffice brand now is more popular than OpenOffice

No. You spread only bad propaganda.

Do you really think we are so stupid not to remember that you have changed your
address from [hidden email] (on 26.09.2016 on this list here) to
[hidden email] (today)?


What you try here is typical FUD.


Jörg



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Re: future of OpenOffice

Raphael Bircher-3
In reply to this post by Akos
Hi Akos

Am .01.2017, 08:29 Uhr, schrieb Nagy Ákos <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
> merged in OpenOffice.
As whole package yes, but you can ask individual contributors to put there  
code to Apache License 2.0.

> The single way is that OpenOffice can merge in LibreOffice, more exactly
> the OpenOffice.org is redirected to LibreOffice.org, because the OO code
> is outdated compared with LO code.
How you know, the AOO Code is outdated? We maintain the code, as LO  
maintain there code. Please come with facts.

> The LibreOffice brand now is more popular than OpenOffice, and some
> other facts: LibreOffice have few hundred new features that OO don't
> have, LibreOffice have a cloud suit (LibreOffice Online) etc.
> You can compare the development trends:

Libre Office is maybe popular at the Linux world, and even there exist  
Users who kick LO and install OpenOffice. There are big features in LO who  
simply shipped over to LO. Native SVG Import. Mac OS X 64 Bit port, and  
the Sidebar for exemple. Many of the added Features are simply buddled  
Extensions.

More feature dosen't mean a better product. If you add a load of new bugs  
to the software in the same time, the user will not be happy.

> https://www.openhub.net/p/openoffice (include webpage and wiki)
> https://www.openhub.net/p/libreoffice (only application code)
>
> Based on financial reports, TDF has income equal to Apache Foundation,
> and TDF spend all money to LibreOffice, but Apache only a little part
> from their income spend for OO.
Apache spend more or less only the infrastructure. TDF and ASF are not  
comparebel. ASF does not found individual projects at all. Not even the  
ApacheCon is founded over ASF budget.

Regards, Raphael


>
> 2017. 01. 10. 20:43 keltezéssel, suhail ansari írta:
>> Hi,
>>
>>   My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice  
>> community.
>>
>> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of downloads.  
>> My suggestion is that Apache software foundation should talk to the  
>> document foundation and ask them to merge their foundation with Apache  
>> software foundation because Apache is world's biggest open source  
>> software foundation and if the document foundation joins Apache then we  
>> can have one product (OpenOffice). The ASF has many popular open source  
>> software products like hadoop, tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good  
>> for both ASF and the document foundation to work together.
>>
>>
>> Suhail Ansari
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>


--
Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch

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Re: future of OpenOffice

Akos
In reply to this post by Jörg Schmidt-2
I wrote something that is not true?
About the trends:
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=openoffice,libreoffice

Finantial report:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/7/7e/TDFAnnualReport2015LR.pdf
https://www.apache.org/foundation/records/990-2014.pdf



2017. 01. 11. 10:21 keltezéssel, Jörg Schmidt írta:

>> From: Nagy Ákos [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
>> merged in OpenOffice.
>> The single way is that OpenOffice can merge in LibreOffice,
>> more exactly
>> the OpenOffice.org is redirected to LibreOffice.org, because
>> the OO code
>> is outdated compared with LO code.
>> The LibreOffice brand now is more popular than OpenOffice
> No. You spread only bad propaganda.
>
> Do you really think we are so stupid not to remember that you have changed your
> address from [hidden email] (on 26.09.2016 on this list here) to
> [hidden email] (today)?
>
>
> What you try here is typical FUD.
>
>
> Jörg
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>



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Re: future of OpenOffice

Matthias Seidel
In reply to this post by Jörg Schmidt-2
The only way to stop this kind of discussion is to concentrate on the
release of OpenOffice 4.1.4.

We have enough code, we have enough translations. So let's move on! ;-)

Kind regards, Matthias Seidel


Am 11.01.2017 um 07:03 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:

>> From: suhail ansari [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>   My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for
>> OpenOffice community.
>>
>> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of
>> downloads. My suggestion is that Apache software foundation
>> should talk to the document foundation and ask them to merge
>> their foundation with Apache software foundation because
> -1
>
> The original does not have to speak with the fork.
> I will never forget how often LO members of OO have spoken badly.
>
>> Apache is world's biggest open source software foundation and
>> if the document foundation joins Apache then we can have one
>> product (OpenOffice).
> -1
>
> I am only a committer, but I will never agree. If the TDF join the ASF I will
> leave the ASF.
>
>> It
>> will be good for both ASF and the document foundation to work
>> together.
> But not good for the quality of the product OpenOffice. We can see at LO every day
> what is the hurried development for the quality.
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: future of OpenOffice

Dr. Michael Stehmann-2
In reply to this post by Akos
Hello,

this discussion is really useless. We have to do more urgend tasks yet.

If TDF people want to talk with us, they know where to find us. And vice
versa.

We have talked a lot in the past. But at the moment I can not see any
topic, which is worth to be discussed another time again.

If LO people want to support AOO, they know how. If the want to
collaborate, they know to whom they should talk to.

Our invitations to put code also under the Apache Licence (v2), to
collaborate in marketing and documentation etc. are still valid.

IMO it makes sense to continue both projects, AOO and LO.

Kind regards
Michael


.


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Re: future of OpenOffice

Patricia Shanahan
In reply to this post by Akos
On 1/10/2017 11:29 PM, Nagy Ákos wrote:
> Hi,
>
> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
> merged in OpenOffice.

That choice of license was very unfortunate, and a regrettable barrier
to cooperation between the projects. When LO split off they could have
kept the Apache license and the potential for future cooperation.

For most of my career, the only way I had of earning a living was
writing software. The FSF's basic philosophy is that programmers should
have no right to own and control the products of their labor. That does
not seem very free to me. For that reason, I'll never donate my labor to
anything that uses their licenses.

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Re: future of OpenOffice

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Dr. Michael Stehmann-2

> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:[hidden email]]

> Hello,
>
> this discussion is really useless. We have to do more urgend
> tasks yet.
>
> If TDF people want to talk with us, they know where to find
> us. And vice
> versa.
>
> We have talked a lot in the past. But at the moment I can not see any
> topic, which is worth to be discussed another time again.
>
> If LO people want to support AOO, they know how. If the want to
> collaborate, they know to whom they should talk to.
>
> Our invitations to put code also under the Apache Licence (v2), to
> collaborate in marketing and documentation etc. are still valid.
>
> IMO it makes sense to continue both projects, AOO and LO.


Thank you for this very clear statement.


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: future of OpenOffice

Akos
In reply to this post by Raphael Bircher-3
2017. 01. 11. 10:26 keltezéssel, Raphael Bircher írta:

> Hi Akos
>
> Am .01.2017, 08:29 Uhr, schrieb Nagy Ákos <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
>> merged in OpenOffice.
> As whole package yes, but you can ask individual contributors to put
> there code to Apache License 2.0.
We talk about more then 1500 individual contributors.
>
>> The single way is that OpenOffice can merge in LibreOffice, more exactly
>> the OpenOffice.org is redirected to LibreOffice.org, because the OO code
>> is outdated compared with LO code.
> How you know, the AOO Code is outdated? We maintain the code, as LO
> maintain there code. Please come with facts.
Sorry, maybe not the outdated expression is a good expression but
someting similar.
AOO has 13598 commits from 2011 (including webpage changes) and LO has
aprox 100000 commits in same time.
I know that only the commit number not equal with the code quality, but
represent progress in code quality too.
https://www.openhub.net/p/openoffice/commits/summary
https://www.openhub.net/p/libreoffice/commits/summary

>
>> The LibreOffice brand now is more popular than OpenOffice, and some
>> other facts: LibreOffice have few hundred new features that OO don't
>> have, LibreOffice have a cloud suit (LibreOffice Online) etc.
>> You can compare the development trends:
>
> Libre Office is maybe popular at the Linux world, and even there exist
> Users who kick LO and install OpenOffice. There are big features in LO
> who simply shipped over to LO. Native SVG Import. Mac OS X 64 Bit
> port, and the Sidebar for exemple. Many of the added Features are
> simply buddled Extensions.
>
> More feature dosen't mean a better product. If you add a load of new
> bugs to the software in the same time, the user will not be happy.
You are right, if the new features means only new bugs. But some
features is necessary for daily work. And many features is very useful
and for many people is required:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/3.4
...
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.3

>
>> https://www.openhub.net/p/openoffice (include webpage and wiki)
>> https://www.openhub.net/p/libreoffice (only application code)
>>
>> Based on financial reports, TDF has income equal to Apache Foundation,
>> and TDF spend all money to LibreOffice, but Apache only a little part
>> from their income spend for OO.
> Apache spend more or less only the infrastructure. TDF and ASF are not
> comparebel. ASF does not found individual projects at all. Not even
> the ApacheCon is founded over ASF budget.
>
> Regards, Raphael
>
>
>>
>> 2017. 01. 10. 20:43 keltezéssel, suhail ansari írta:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>   My name is Suhail and I have some suggestions for OpenOffice
>>> community.
>>>
>>> OpenOffice is very popular and it attracts large number of
>>> downloads. My suggestion is that Apache software foundation should
>>> talk to the document foundation and ask them to merge their
>>> foundation with Apache software foundation because Apache is world's
>>> biggest open source software foundation and if the document
>>> foundation joins Apache then we can have one product (OpenOffice).
>>> The ASF has many popular open source software products like hadoop,
>>> tomcat, OpenOffice etc. It will be good for both ASF and the
>>> document foundation to work together.
>>>
>>>
>>> Suhail Ansari
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
>



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Re: future of OpenOffice

Jörg Schmidt-2
In reply to this post by Akos
The problem is another, you are trying to sow uncertainty here.

This is a method I only know of LO / TDF sympatizers and only against OpenOffice.
Never have I experienced the LO / TDF sympatizers attacking other Office projects.

Likewise, I have not experienced the OO sympathizers try the same on LO
mailing-lists.


Jörg
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nagy Ákos [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:30 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: future of OpenOffice
>
> I wrote something that is not true?
> About the trends:
> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=openoffice,libreoffice
>
> Finantial report:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/7/7e/TDFAnnualRepor
> t2015LR.pdf
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/records/990-2014.pdf
>
>
>
> 2017. 01. 11. 10:21 keltezéssel, Jörg Schmidt írta:
> >> From: Nagy Ákos [mailto:[hidden email]]
> >> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
> >> merged in OpenOffice.
> >> The single way is that OpenOffice can merge in LibreOffice,
> >> more exactly
> >> the OpenOffice.org is redirected to LibreOffice.org, because
> >> the OO code
> >> is outdated compared with LO code.
> >> The LibreOffice brand now is more popular than OpenOffice
> > No. You spread only bad propaganda.
> >
> > Do you really think we are so stupid not to remember that
> you have changed your
> > address from [hidden email] (on 26.09.2016 on
> this list here) to
> > [hidden email] (today)?
> >
> >
> > What you try here is typical FUD.
> >
> >
> > Jörg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: future of OpenOffice

FR web forum
In reply to this post by Patricia Shanahan
TDF could be give up these copyleft licences.
Maybe, we could create a petition to ask this
LibO, please bring back to AL v2 licence
 :-)

----- Mail original -----
De: "Patricia Shanahan" <[hidden email]>
À: [hidden email]
Envoyé: Mercredi 11 Janvier 2017 09:44:26
Objet: Re: future of OpenOffice

On 1/10/2017 11:29 PM, Nagy Ákos wrote:
> Hi,
>
> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
> merged in OpenOffice.

That choice of license was very unfortunate, and a regrettable barrier
to cooperation between the projects. When LO split off they could have
kept the Apache license and the potential for future cooperation.

For most of my career, the only way I had of earning a living was
writing software. The FSF's basic philosophy is that programmers should
have no right to own and control the products of their labor. That does
not seem very free to me. For that reason, I'll never donate my labor to
anything that uses their licenses.

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Re: future of OpenOffice

Dr. Michael Stehmann-2
In reply to this post by Patricia Shanahan
Am 11.01.2017 um 09:44 schrieb Patricia Shanahan:

> For most of my career, the only way I had of earning a living was
> writing software. The FSF's basic philosophy is that programmers should
> have no right to own and control the products of their labor. That does
> not seem very free to me. For that reason, I'll never donate my labor to
> anything that uses their licenses.

The difference between the Apache Licence and the licences, which are
promoted by the FSF, is the so called "Copyleft". The Apache licence has
no copyleft.

But copyleft gives the programmer more and not less control, because
nobody can make a proprietary (non free) product of the code without the
permission of the copyright holder (programmer).

That is why some supporters of copyleftless licence say, that these
licences are more free than licence containing a copyleft.

That is a question, whether you are the user or the creator of the code.

For an enduser of the code copyleft brings potentially more freedom.

If you are a developer, using code under a copyleftless licence is much
easier. But if you are the programmer of the used code, you have more
control, what people do with your product.

Kind regards
Michael









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Re: future of OpenOffice

Akos
In reply to this post by FR web forum
The code is owned by comunity (1500+ individual people) not by TDF.
Each developer own our part from code.

And I don't think that majority from this people want to change the
licence, because with LGPL+MPL the whole LO code need to be leave open,
with apache licence the code can be closed, like IMB Symphony grab the
OOo code, and close it.

2017. 01. 11. 11:55 keltezéssel, FR web forum írta:

> TDF could be give up these copyleft licences.
> Maybe, we could create a petition to ask this
> LibO, please bring back to AL v2 licence
>  :-)
>
> ----- Mail original -----
> De: "Patricia Shanahan" <[hidden email]>
> À: [hidden email]
> Envoyé: Mercredi 11 Janvier 2017 09:44:26
> Objet: Re: future of OpenOffice
>
> On 1/10/2017 11:29 PM, Nagy Ákos wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
>> merged in OpenOffice.
> That choice of license was very unfortunate, and a regrettable barrier
> to cooperation between the projects. When LO split off they could have
> kept the Apache license and the potential for future cooperation.
>
> For most of my career, the only way I had of earning a living was
> writing software. The FSF's basic philosophy is that programmers should
> have no right to own and control the products of their labor. That does
> not seem very free to me. For that reason, I'll never donate my labor to
> anything that uses their licenses.
>
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Re: future of OpenOffice

Dr. Michael Stehmann-2
Am 11.01.2017 um 11:34 schrieb Nagy Ákos:
> The code is owned by comunity (1500+ individual people) not by TDF.
> Each developer own our part from code.
>
> And I don't think that majority from this people want to change the
> licence, because with LGPL+MPL the whole LO code need to be leave open,
> with apache licence the code can be closed, like IMB Symphony grab the
> OOo code, and close it.
>

So a merge with the ASF as suggested by Suhail Ansari is not possible.
That is a good reason for EOD.

Regards
Michael




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Re: future of OpenOffice

Matthias Seidel
Am 11.01.2017 um 11:43 schrieb RA Stehmann:

> Am 11.01.2017 um 11:34 schrieb Nagy Ákos:
>> The code is owned by comunity (1500+ individual people) not by TDF.
>> Each developer own our part from code.
>>
>> And I don't think that majority from this people want to change the
>> licence, because with LGPL+MPL the whole LO code need to be leave open,
>> with apache licence the code can be closed, like IMB Symphony grab the
>> OOo code, and close it.
>>
> So a merge with the ASF as suggested by Suhail Ansari is not possible.
> That is a good reason for EOD.
>
> Regards
> Michael
+1

Regards, Matthias


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