[marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9

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[marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Alexandro Colorado-3
Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to
SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not
finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting
for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow
lately so I want to put an early petition here.

Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you
can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/

After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were
interested into expanding the participation for communities such as
OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider
talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an
OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South
America and Europe.

$500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would
still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel.

regards.

--
Alexandro Colorado
OpenOffice.org Español
http://es.openoffice.org

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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Peter Junge-2
Hi Alexandro,

Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to
> SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not
> finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting
> for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow
> lately so I want to put an early petition here.

maybe the processes are slow because you are sending your request
recurrently to the wrong address. AFAIR, Florian had mentioned this many
times. A budget request has to raised with the budget custodian, which
is currently me. Mailing lists are welcome to be CCed, but it's not
mandatory.

>
> Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you
> can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/
>
> After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were
> interested into expanding the participation for communities such as
> OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider
> talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an
> OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South
> America and Europe.

If we fund you to attend the SCALEx9, we have to make sure that you are
still with OOo. I had a look at the ES project at the OOo website and I
have to say, that there are a couple of issues puzzling me, hence I want
to raise some concerns:

Firstly, the design of http://es.openoffice.org/ is not as it should be
with OOo. Usually one finds the main project links such as member list,
mailing lists etc., but they are hidden. They only becoming visible
after moving on to "Conoce OOo" or "Servicios". Being there, I have been
having a look at "Comunidad::Listas de Correos" and got really
irritated. (http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html) The OOo
mailing lists have apparently been dropped in preference of other
mailing lists hosted as http://oooes.org/. I'm not in favor for such a
solution, but it might still be a agreement of the community. However,
the worst problem for me is, that the OOo mailing list archives are not
reachable from this point. IMHO, that's totally inappropriate. Even more
confusing is, that the dev@es mailing list still seems to have
significant traffic, see:
http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev
Can you please comment my above observations.

Secondly, I have been visiting http://oooes.org/ then. It promotes both
OOo and LibreOffice, which many here see as a competing product and
community. So, if you are going to attend the SCALEx9 on behalf and the
expenses of OOo, will yo exclusively promote OOo or will you promote the
whole ecosystem? The flow chart
(http://oooes.org/images/interacciones-oooes.png) on the main page looks
a bit like OOoES is closer tight to the TDF and LibO, rather than OOo.
(BTW, the way OOoES is using the new OOo logo is IMHO against the
guidelines.)

>
> $500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would
> still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel.

Please comment on the above concerns before we proceed.

Best regards,
Peter


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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Alexandro Colorado-3
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:37 AM, Peter Junge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Alexandro,
>
> Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>
>> Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to
>> SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not
>> finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting
>> for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow
>> lately so I want to put an early petition here.
>
> maybe the processes are slow because you are sending your request
> recurrently to the wrong address. AFAIR, Florian had mentioned this many
> times. A budget request has to raised with the budget custodian, which is
> currently me. Mailing lists are welcome to be CCed, but it's not mandatory.
>
>>
>> Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you
>> can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/
>>
>> After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were
>> interested into expanding the participation for communities such as
>> OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider
>> talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an
>> OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South
>> America and Europe.
>
> If we fund you to attend the SCALEx9, we have to make sure that you are
> still with OOo. I had a look at the ES project at the OOo website and I have
> to say, that there are a couple of issues puzzling me, hence I want to raise
> some concerns:
>
> Firstly, the design of http://es.openoffice.org/ is not as it should be with
> OOo. Usually one finds the main project links such as member list, mailing
> lists etc., but they are hidden. They only becoming visible after moving on
> to "Conoce OOo" or "Servicios". Being there, I have been having a look at
> "Comunidad::Listas de Correos" and got really irritated.
> (http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html) The OOo mailing lists have
> apparently been dropped in preference of other mailing lists hosted as
> http://oooes.org/. I'm not in favor for such a solution, but it might still
> be a agreement of the community. However, the worst problem for me is, that
> the OOo mailing list archives are not reachable from this point. IMHO,
> that's totally inappropriate. Even more confusing is, that the dev@es
> mailing list still seems to have significant traffic, see:
> http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev
> Can you please comment my above observations.
>
> Secondly, I have been visiting http://oooes.org/ then. It promotes both OOo
> and LibreOffice, which many here see as a competing product and community.
> So, if you are going to attend the SCALEx9 on behalf and the expenses of
> OOo, will yo exclusively promote OOo or will you promote the whole
> ecosystem? The flow chart (http://oooes.org/images/interacciones-oooes.png)
> on the main page looks a bit like OOoES is closer tight to the TDF and LibO,
> rather than OOo. (BTW, the way OOoES is using the new OOo logo is IMHO
> against the guidelines.)
>
>>
>> $500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would
>> still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel.
>
> Please comment on the above concerns before we proceed.

I am not sure, this is a oooES issue at all, nor was intervention at
SCALE last year. There is no business for the spanish NLC in the US.
Last year I was promoting the projects of the Education Project, being
ooo4kids. This year it will be a more technical approach than last
year -- hopefully. I dont think I ever pushed ES NLC as you might see
on the discussion from last year budget request between Cor and myself
nor on the video from the talk. So to answer your question, I probably
won't be pushing the spanish NLC at any point of the conference.

About the changes that you see, well most of them have been taken from
a community consensus on what is best for the contributors. I am not
sure if this concerns marketing project, since I really never seen the
marketing project as an auditor for what NLC groups do or dont do. I
am confused, can you please explain?


>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
>



--
Alexandro Colorado
OpenOffice.org Español
http://es.openoffice.org

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RE: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

BILL SILER
In reply to this post by Peter Junge-2

Sorry Folks, but we run at different speeds and different tracks...Bill Siler

> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:37:32 +0800
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9
>
> Hi Alexandro,
>
> Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> > Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to
> > SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not
> > finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting
> > for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow
> > lately so I want to put an early petition here.
>
> maybe the processes are slow because you are sending your request
> recurrently to the wrong address. AFAIR, Florian had mentioned this many
> times. A budget request has to raised with the budget custodian, which
> is currently me. Mailing lists are welcome to be CCed, but it's not
> mandatory.
>
> >
> > Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you
> > can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/
> >
> > After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were
> > interested into expanding the participation for communities such as
> > OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider
> > talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an
> > OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South
> > America and Europe.
>
> If we fund you to attend the SCALEx9, we have to make sure that you are
> still with OOo. I had a look at the ES project at the OOo website and I
> have to say, that there are a couple of issues puzzling me, hence I want
> to raise some concerns:
>
> Firstly, the design of http://es.openoffice.org/ is not as it should be
> with OOo. Usually one finds the main project links such as member list,
> mailing lists etc., but they are hidden. They only becoming visible
> after moving on to "Conoce OOo" or "Servicios". Being there, I have been
> having a look at "Comunidad::Listas de Correos" and got really
> irritated. (http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html) The OOo
> mailing lists have apparently been dropped in preference of other
> mailing lists hosted as http://oooes.org/. I'm not in favor for such a
> solution, but it might still be a agreement of the community. However,
> the worst problem for me is, that the OOo mailing list archives are not
> reachable from this point. IMHO, that's totally inappropriate. Even more
> confusing is, that the dev@es mailing list still seems to have
> significant traffic, see:
> http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev
> Can you please comment my above observations.
>
> Secondly, I have been visiting http://oooes.org/ then. It promotes both
> OOo and LibreOffice, which many here see as a competing product and
> community. So, if you are going to attend the SCALEx9 on behalf and the
> expenses of OOo, will yo exclusively promote OOo or will you promote the
> whole ecosystem? The flow chart
> (http://oooes.org/images/interacciones-oooes.png) on the main page looks
> a bit like OOoES is closer tight to the TDF and LibO, rather than OOo.
> (BTW, the way OOoES is using the new OOo logo is IMHO against the
> guidelines.)
>
> >
> > $500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would
> > still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel.
>
> Please comment on the above concerns before we proceed.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
>
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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Peter Junge-2
In reply to this post by Alexandro Colorado-3
Alexandro Colorado wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:37 AM, Peter Junge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Alexandro,
>>
>> Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>>> Hi I want to ask the budget commitee for 500 dls for expenses to
>>> SCALEx9. I want to put the petition even if SCALE still have not
>>> finished the CFP. I submitted a couple of talks and I am still waiting
>>> for the final approval. However budget processes have been a bit slow
>>> lately so I want to put an early petition here.
>> maybe the processes are slow because you are sending your request
>> recurrently to the wrong address. AFAIR, Florian had mentioned this many
>> times. A budget request has to raised with the budget custodian, which is
>> currently me. Mailing lists are welcome to be CCed, but it's not mandatory.
>>
>>> Last year I participated with a lightning talk on OOo4Kids which you
>>> can watch here: http://jza.blip.tv/file/3261755/
>>>
>>> After the talk I got to talk with the core organizers which were
>>> interested into expanding the participation for communities such as
>>> OOo in the US. And geared me to participate next year with a wider
>>> talk about OOo/ODF etc. This year I am giving a talk on ODF with an
>>> OpenGovernment angle, targeting the success stories gather from South
>>> America and Europe.
>> If we fund you to attend the SCALEx9, we have to make sure that you are
>> still with OOo. I had a look at the ES project at the OOo website and I have
>> to say, that there are a couple of issues puzzling me, hence I want to raise
>> some concerns:
>>
>> Firstly, the design of http://es.openoffice.org/ is not as it should be with
>> OOo. Usually one finds the main project links such as member list, mailing
>> lists etc., but they are hidden. They only becoming visible after moving on
>> to "Conoce OOo" or "Servicios". Being there, I have been having a look at
>> "Comunidad::Listas de Correos" and got really irritated.
>> (http://es.openoffice.org/comunidad/listas.html) The OOo mailing lists have
>> apparently been dropped in preference of other mailing lists hosted as
>> http://oooes.org/. I'm not in favor for such a solution, but it might still
>> be a agreement of the community. However, the worst problem for me is, that
>> the OOo mailing list archives are not reachable from this point. IMHO,
>> that's totally inappropriate. Even more confusing is, that the dev@es
>> mailing list still seems to have significant traffic, see:
>> http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev
>> Can you please comment my above observations.
>>
>> Secondly, I have been visiting http://oooes.org/ then. It promotes both OOo
>> and LibreOffice, which many here see as a competing product and community.
>> So, if you are going to attend the SCALEx9 on behalf and the expenses of
>> OOo, will yo exclusively promote OOo or will you promote the whole
>> ecosystem? The flow chart (http://oooes.org/images/interacciones-oooes.png)
>> on the main page looks a bit like OOoES is closer tight to the TDF and LibO,
>> rather than OOo. (BTW, the way OOoES is using the new OOo logo is IMHO
>> against the guidelines.)
>>
>>> $500 would allow me to partially pay for my travel expenses. I would
>>> still need to chip from my own money to pay for hotel.
>> Please comment on the above concerns before we proceed.
>
> I am not sure, this is a oooES issue at all, nor was intervention at
> SCALE last year. There is no business for the spanish NLC in the US.

The problem I have with oooES is that it seems to build a parallel
universe to OOo. As I said before, the oooES project (I assume you are
one of the persons in charge) is using the mailing list page of the ES
project to detour users, while the native mailing lists are blanked out
although they are still active.

> Last year I was promoting the projects of the Education Project, being
> ooo4kids. This year it will be a more technical approach than last
> year -- hopefully. I dont think I ever pushed ES NLC as you might see
> on the discussion from last year budget request between Cor and myself
> nor on the video from the talk. So to answer your question, I probably
> won't be pushing the spanish NLC at any point of the conference.

My concern is, that you seem to leave OOo to do your own thing with
OOoES. Hence, what would be the interest of OOo to be funding you?

Would be great if others could comment on this, especially those from
the ES project. Of course, my POV may be wrong as I'm only taking an
outside view.

>
> About the changes that you see, well most of them have been taken from
> a community consensus on what is best for the contributors. I am not
> sure if this concerns marketing project, since I really never seen the
> marketing project as an auditor for what NLC groups do or dont do. I
> am confused, can you please explain?

Maybe it's not apparent, but the Marketing Project is insofar concerned
and an auditor --not for the NLCs, but for e.g. you-- as travel funding
are coming from the Marketing budget.

Best regards,
Peter

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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Ariel Constenla-Haile
Hello Peter, *

On Sunday 19 December 2010, 19:55, Peter Junge wrote:
> My concern is, that you seem to leave OOo to do your own thing with
> OOoES. Hence, what would be the interest of OOo to be funding you?
>
> Would be great if others could comment on this, especially those from
> the ES project.

most people on the ES mailing lists do not follow the discussions on the
international OOo lists.

> Of course, my POV may be wrong as I'm only taking an
> outside view.
>
> > About the changes that you see, well most of them have been taken from
> > a community consensus on what is best for the contributors.

this is not true. Alexandro, please point us to the mailing list archives
where all these have been publicly discussed and approved.

I can point to the following threads:
http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_es&by=thread&from=2436682
http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_es&by=thread&from=2436683

unfortunately most people do not speak Spanish. But these threads show that
some people do not agree with *yours* decisions.

Besides this issues within the ES Project, IMO you are under-qualified to
represent OpenOffice.org at any sort of conference or talk; it is unfortunate
here too that most people do not speak Spanish, this is the only reason I
found why you have gone so far inside a meritocratic Community.

Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

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Re: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Ramon Sole
In reply to this post by Peter Junge-2
Hello Peter,

Alexandro is one of the main sponsors of oooES. Threre was a lot of
discussion and disagreement in the Spanish list about the promotion of
the oooES project, privately held by a few people, as an alternative to
OOo, as the promotion has been done inside of OOo itself.

There has not been any consensus in the Spanish Community about how the
Spanish site has been managed. On the contrary, a bitter discussion has
been started about the attempt to migrate OOo users to the oooES site
and the way the lists have been used to try to get that. If anyone
browses the discuss Spanish list recent archives he will find lots of
messages claiming for a conflict of interests with Alexandro and other
Southamerican regional marcom leaders because of the oooES site and
their involvement in TDF.

I essentially agree your POV and I'm sure many other people who doesn't
read the English lists would too.

Best Regards,

Ramon

---------------------------------------
Hola Peter,

Alexandro es uno de los promotores principales de oooES. Ha habido mucha
discusión y desacuerdo en las lista españolas sobre la promoción del
proyecto oooES, bajo el control de unas pocas personas, como una
alternativa a OOo, dado que la promoción se ha realizado internamente
desde OOo.

No ha habido consenso en la conunidad española sobre como se ha manejado
el sitio español. Al contrario, se ha abierto una discusión bastante
agria sobre el intento de mover los usuarios de OOo al sitio oooES y la
forma como se han utilizado las listas para probar de conseguirlo.
Cualquiera que hojee los archivos recientes de la lista de discuss en
español encantrará muchos mensajes quejándose por un conflicto de
intereses por parte de Alexandro y otros marcom lideres de regiones
sudamericanas por el caso del sitio oooES y su involucración con TDF.

Yo estoy esencialmente de acuerdo con tu punto de vista y estoy seguro
de que muchas otras personas que no leen las listas en inglés también lo
estarían.

Un saludo,

Ramon
---------------------------------------
Peter Junge wrote:
> <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Alexandro

> The problem I have with oooES is that it seems to build a parallel
> universe to OOo. As I said before, the oooES project (I assume you are
> one of the persons in charge) is using the mailing list page of the ES
> project to detour users, while the native mailing lists are blanked out
> although they are still active.

...

> My concern is, that you seem to leave OOo to do your own thing with
> OOoES. Hence, what would be the interest of OOo to be funding you?

...

>
> Would be great if others could comment on this, especially those from
> the ES project. Of course, my POV may be wrong as I'm only taking an
> outside view.
>
> Maybe it's not apparent, but the Marketing Project is insofar concerned
> and an auditor --not for the NLCs, but for e.g. you-- as travel funding
> are coming from the Marketing budget.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter


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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Roman Gelbort-6
Peter.

Both, Ariel and Ramón, are 2 of 4 or 5 dissatisfied users in one list of
hundreds of users. But they speak english and another users not.

The Alexandro's job in NLC Spanish is titanic. You can see the number of
posts in the lists (users, discuss and dev) in spanish. Nobody help more
users in spanish like Alexandro... ¿How many does a person like him?

Ariel and Ramón... and 3 or 4 more can speak about to "the bad leader",
but none of them work in the community like the community need. Only
speak and protest.

If you believe that Alexandro can't ask the budget for promote and help
one community in SCALEx... ok, is your prerogative. This don't have
relation with NLC ES.

Please, don't criticize oooES if you don't know oooES.

oooES is for the users... and the users that nobody help in your languaje.

We, the founders of oooES, aggregated teens of thousands of migrated
desktops in our professional works. And we can and want help the
community, beyond of this distro war (OOo, LibO and OOo4Kids). We want
help to anybodies, without irritate to OOo or LibO... ¿Is this possible?

Best regards.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prof. Román H. Gelbort
http://www.piensalibre.com.ar

Por 10 años con una oficina Open... desde ahora también LIBRE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Ariel Constenla-Haile
Hello *

On Sunday 19 December 2010, 23:16, Roman Gelbort wrote:
> Peter.
>
> Both, Ariel and Ramón, are 2 of 4 or 5 dissatisfied users in one list of
> hundreds of users.

please quote links to those hundreds of user supporting Alexandro's recent
decisions.
I can only count one -1 on
http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_es&by=thread&from=2436682
and another one -1 on
http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_es&by=thread&from=2436683
(I guess that if this had been decisive, Alexandro would no longer be our
Project Lead).

> But they speak english and another users not.
>
> The Alexandro's job in NLC Spanish is titanic. You can see the number of
> posts in the lists (users, discuss and dev) in spanish. Nobody help more
> users in spanish like Alexandro... ¿How many does a person like him?
>
> Ariel and Ramón... and 3 or 4 more can speak about to "the bad leader",
> but none of them work in the community like the community need. Only
> speak and protest.

please go search the archives by author before speaking (and also read the
content! not only numbers matter)

> If you believe that Alexandro can't ask the budget for promote and help
> one community in SCALEx... ok, is your prerogative. This don't have
> relation with NLC ES.
>
> Please, don't criticize oooES if you don't know oooES.
>
> oooES is for the users...

no, it's you and a limited group of people.
Please stop abusing the term "user" and "Community" to justify yourself.

> and the users that nobody help in your languaje.
>
> We, the founders of oooES, aggregated teens of thousands of migrated
> desktops in our professional works. And we can and want help the
> community, beyond of this distro war (OOo, LibO and OOo4Kids). We want
> help to anybodies, without irritate to OOo or LibO... ¿Is this possible?
>
> Best regards.


Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

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[marketing] Re: [d_es] Re: Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Jose Carlos
In reply to this post by Ramon Sole
+1

El 20/12/10 01:44, Ramon Sole escribió:
Hello Peter,

Alexandro is one of the main sponsors of oooES. Threre was a lot of
discussion and disagreement in the Spanish list about the promotion of
the oooES project, privately held by a few people, as an alternative to
OOo, as the promotion has been done inside of OOo itself.

There has not been any consensus in the Spanish Community about how the
Spanish site has been managed. On the contrary, a bitter discussion has
been started about the attempt to migrate OOo users to the oooES site
and the way the lists have been used to try to get that. If anyone
browses the discuss Spanish list recent archives he will find lots of
messages claiming for a conflict of interests with Alexandro and other
Southamerican regional marcom leaders because of the oooES site and
their involvement in TDF.

I essentially agree your POV and I'm sure many other people who doesn't
read the English lists would too.

Best Regards,

Ramon

---------------------------------------
Hola Peter,

Alexandro es uno de los promotores principales de oooES. Ha habido mucha
discusión y desacuerdo en las lista españolas sobre la promoción del
proyecto oooES, bajo el control de unas pocas personas, como una
alternativa a OOo, dado que la promoción se ha realizado internamente
desde OOo.

No ha habido consenso en la conunidad española sobre como se ha manejado
el sitio español. Al contrario, se ha abierto una discusión bastante
agria sobre el intento de mover los usuarios de OOo al sitio oooES y la
forma como se han utilizado las listas para probar de conseguirlo.
Cualquiera que hojee los archivos recientes de la lista de discuss en
español encantrará muchos mensajes quejándose por un conflicto de
intereses por parte de Alexandro y otros marcom lideres de regiones
sudamericanas por el caso del sitio oooES y su involucración con TDF.

Yo estoy esencialmente de acuerdo con tu punto de vista y estoy seguro
de que muchas otras personas que no leen las listas en inglés también lo
estarían.

Un saludo,

Ramon
---------------------------------------
Peter Junge wrote:
<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Alexandro

      
The problem I have with oooES is that it seems to build a parallel
universe to OOo. As I said before, the oooES project (I assume you are
one of the persons in charge) is using the mailing list page of the ES
project to detour users, while the native mailing lists are blanked out
although they are still active.
...

My concern is, that you seem to leave OOo to do your own thing with
OOoES. Hence, what would be the interest of OOo to be funding you?
...
Would be great if others could comment on this, especially those from
the ES project. Of course, my POV may be wrong as I'm only taking an
outside view.

Maybe it's not apparent, but the Marketing Project is insofar concerned
and an auditor --not for the NLCs, but for e.g. you-- as travel funding
are coming from the Marketing budget.

Best regards,
Peter

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José Carlos Simón Vallejo

Técnico de Grado Medio Informático

Departamento de Informática

 

Junta de Andalucía

Consejería para la Igualdad y Bienestar Social

Delegación Provincial de Málaga

Avda. Manuel Agustín Heredia, 26

29001-Málaga

 

Tel. 951036463 Corp. 936463

Email: josec.s.vallejo (a) juntadeandalucia.es

P Antes de imprimir este e-mail piense bien si es necesario hacerlo. Imprima a doble cara siempre que pueda.

 

       Este correo electrónico y, en su caso, cualquier fichero anexo al mismo, contiene información de carácter confidencial exclusivamente dirigida a su destinatario o destinatarios. Queda prohibida su divulgación, copia o distribución a terceros sin la previa autorización explícita del Servicio de Informática de la Consejería para la Igualdad y Bienestar Social.

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[marketing] Re: [d_es] Re: [marketing] Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Jose Carlos
In reply to this post by Ariel Constenla-Haile
+1

El 20/12/10 03:59, Ariel Constenla-Haile escribió:
Hello *

On Sunday 19 December 2010, 23:16, Roman Gelbort wrote:
Peter.

Both, Ariel and Ramón, are 2 of 4 or 5 dissatisfied users in one list of
hundreds of users. 
please quote links to those hundreds of user supporting Alexandro's recent 
decisions. 
I can only count one -1 on
http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_es&by=thread&from=2436682
and another one -1 on
http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?list=discuss_es&by=thread&from=2436683
(I guess that if this had been decisive, Alexandro would no longer be our 
Project Lead).

But they speak english and another users not.

The Alexandro's job in NLC Spanish is titanic. You can see the number of
posts in the lists (users, discuss and dev) in spanish. Nobody help more
users in spanish like Alexandro... ¿How many does a person like him?

Ariel and Ramón... and 3 or 4 more can speak about to "the bad leader",
but none of them work in the community like the community need. Only
speak and protest.
please go search the archives by author before speaking (and also read the 
content! not only numbers matter)

If you believe that Alexandro can't ask the budget for promote and help
one community in SCALEx... ok, is your prerogative. This don't have
relation with NLC ES.

Please, don't criticize oooES if you don't know oooES.

oooES is for the users... 
no, it's you and a limited group of people.
Please stop abusing the term "user" and "Community" to justify yourself.

and the users that nobody help in your languaje.

We, the founders of oooES, aggregated teens of thousands of migrated
desktops in our professional works. And we can and want help the
community, beyond of this distro war (OOo, LibO and OOo4Kids). We want
help to anybodies, without irritate to OOo or LibO... ¿Is this possible?

Best regards.

Regards

--
- no title specified

José Carlos Simón Vallejo

Técnico de Grado Medio Informático

Departamento de Informática

 

Junta de Andalucía

Consejería para la Igualdad y Bienestar Social

Delegación Provincial de Málaga

Avda. Manuel Agustín Heredia, 26

29001-Málaga

 

Tel. 951036463 Corp. 936463

Email: josec.s.vallejo (a) juntadeandalucia.es

P Antes de imprimir este e-mail piense bien si es necesario hacerlo. Imprima a doble cara siempre que pueda.

 

       Este correo electrónico y, en su caso, cualquier fichero anexo al mismo, contiene información de carácter confidencial exclusivamente dirigida a su destinatario o destinatarios. Queda prohibida su divulgación, copia o distribución a terceros sin la previa autorización explícita del Servicio de Informática de la Consejería para la Igualdad y Bienestar Social.

       Si no es Ud. el destinatario del mensaje le ruego lo destruya sin hacer copia digital o física, comunicando al Servicio de Informática de la Consejería para la Igualdad y Bienestar Social vía e-mail o fax la recepción del presente mensaje. Toda declaración de voluntad contenida deberá ser tenida por no producida. Gracias.


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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Italo Vignoli
In reply to this post by Ramon Sole
On 12/20/2010 01:44 AM, Ramon Sole wrote:

> There has not been any consensus in the Spanish Community about how the
> Spanish site has been managed. On the contrary, a bitter discussion has
> been started about the attempt to migrate OOo users to the oooES site
> and the way the lists have been used to try to get that. If anyone
> browses the discuss Spanish list recent archives he will find lots of
> messages claiming for a conflict of interests with Alexandro and other
> Southamerican regional marcom leaders because of the oooES site and
> their involvement in TDF.

Let's be very straightforward: there isn't any involvement whatsoever of
Alexandro and any other South American marcon in TDF. We feel that the
same mess concerns the entire Spanish free software community.

--
Italo Vignoli
tel +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
[hidden email]
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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Ramon Sole
Hello Italo,

well, documentfoundation.es was registered by Alexandro, and he stated
himself in the OpenOffice.org Spanish lists he was in thight
relationship with the TDF about that domain.

If you can read a little Spanish you will find interested that message,
about a (one more) discussion with Alexandro and his involvement in TDF
(regarding the documentfoundation.es domain that time) while keeping, in
OpenOffice.org, the Spanish NLP leadership.

http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=9186

Alexandro states "Yo hablo directamente con el webmaster de
DocumentFoundation.org --  Florian Effemberg". It translates to "I talk
directly to the webmaster of DocumentFoundation.org --  Florian Effemberg"

So I inferred Alexandro was involved with TDF, at least in some way,
just because he himself stated it. If not, sorry for my mistake.

And I agree, the mess concerns just the OpenOffice.org Spanish
Community. I apologize for involving TDF on it and I thank you for your
message.

BTW, if Alexandro has no relationship with TDF then you have a problem
with the domain documentfoundation.es, it has been kidnapped. See below.

Best Regards,

Ramon

--------------------

A whois:

Name documentfoundation.es
Identifier 131383-ESNIC-F5
Owner Foropreneur
Date 20-10-2010

Administrative Contact:
Name Kahlil Johnson
Email [hidden email]

Technical Contact:
Name Kahlil Johnson
Email [hidden email]

Who is [hidden email]? Alexandro. See it on
http://www.blogger.com/profile/01748159292962133596

Who is Kahlil Johnson? Alexandro. See it on
http://identi.ca/jza
--------------------------------------------

Italo Vignoli wrote:

> On 12/20/2010 01:44 AM, Ramon Sole wrote:
>
>> There has not been any consensus in the Spanish Community about how the
>> Spanish site has been managed. On the contrary, a bitter discussion has
>> been started about the attempt to migrate OOo users to the oooES site
>> and the way the lists have been used to try to get that. If anyone
>> browses the discuss Spanish list recent archives he will find lots of
>> messages claiming for a conflict of interests with Alexandro and other
>> Southamerican regional marcom leaders because of the oooES site and
>> their involvement in TDF.
>
> Let's be very straightforward: there isn't any involvement whatsoever of
> Alexandro and any other South American marcon in TDF. We feel that the
> same mess concerns the entire Spanish free software community.
>

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Re: Marketing budget - SCALEx9

Italo Vignoli
On 12/21/2010 12:21 AM, Ramon Sole wrote:

> well, documentfoundation.es was registered by Alexandro, and he stated
> himself in the OpenOffice.org Spanish lists he was in thight
> relationship with the TDF about that domain.

We have registered only the international domains for TDF, while we have
registered the national domains for LibreOffice (because it makes sense
to have local product web sites). Alexandro has tried to get involved,
but has not managed to get involved. Unfortunately, Internet rules allow
some mess, and the registration of the web site is part of this mess.

> If you can read a little Spanish you will find interested that message,
> about a (one more) discussion with Alexandro and his involvement in TDF
> (regarding the documentfoundation.es domain that time) while keeping, in
> OpenOffice.org, the Spanish NLP leadership.
>
> http://es.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=9186
>
> Alexandro states "Yo hablo directamente con el webmaster de
> DocumentFoundation.org --  Florian Effemberg". It translates to "I talk
> directly to the webmaster of DocumentFoundation.org --  Florian Effemberg"
>
> So I inferred Alexandro was involved with TDF, at least in some way,
> just because he himself stated it. If not, sorry for my mistake.

I can definitely read Spanish (I'm Italian, and in addition I speak a
little Spanish). Everyone in the OOo community knows Florian, so it's
easy to say that you speak with him. But if you look at TDF web site,
you will realize who are the people behind the project.

> And I agree, the mess concerns just the OpenOffice.org Spanish
> Community. I apologize for involving TDF on it and I thank you for your
> message.

The mess, unfortunately, refers to the entire Spanish speaking
community, because the situation risks to make it under represented in
every free software project.

> BTW, if Alexandro has no relationship with TDF then you have a problem
> with the domain documentfoundation.es, it has been kidnapped. See below.

This is a minor problem. We own the trademark, and no one can use the
trademark unless authorized by TDF. A domani without a chance of being
associated with a trademark is just empty.

--
Italo Vignoli
tel +39.348.5653829
VoIP: +39.02.320621813
[hidden email]
skype italovignoli

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