spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

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spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

Felmon Davis
hello,

it's easy to set up a style to indent a paragraph with two line spaces
separating it from the rest of the text fore and aft.

suppose I want a style that will keep two paragraphs together,
separated by one line but separated from the rest by two spaces before
and after the couplet.

is that doable?

f.

--
Felmon Davis

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Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

Brian Barker-2
At 17:54 02/09/2019 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
>it's easy to set up a style to indent a paragraph with two line
>spaces separating it from the rest of the text fore and aft.

I'm sorry to have to disappoint you but, although OpenOffice is
available for a range of operating systems, it is not available for
Typewriter, which you appear to use. It's only when using a
typewriter that you space paragraphs by "lines", of course: in a word
processor you are not restricted to lines and so set paragraph
spacing simply by distance.

>suppose I want a style that will keep two paragraphs together,
>separated by one line but separated from the rest by two spaces
>before and after the couplet. is that doable?

o It's a bit messy (though it satisfies your archaic need to think in
lines), but you could separate the two blocks of text by two
successive line breaks (Shift+Enter) instead of a paragraph break.
You could still adjust the vertical spacing by changing the font size
in the intervening empty line. The two blocks would then actually
constitute a single paragraph, of course.

o Alternatively, you could apply local paragraph formatting to the
pair of paragraphs (or probably just one of them), to override the
paragraph style formatting.

o Here's an idea. Put your pair of paragraphs into a single table
cell (one column, one row). (You won't want a table border.) Apply a
different paragraph style (perhaps Table Contents?) to your pair of
paragraphs, with smaller spacing (one "line"). Then also set spacing
after the table to make up the necessary difference between the pair
of paragraphs and the following material (the other of your two "lines").

I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


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Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

Felmon Davis
In reply to this post by Felmon Davis
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019, Brian Barker wrote:

> At 17:54 02/09/2019 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
>> it's easy to set up a style to indent a paragraph with two line spaces
>> separating it from the rest of the text fore and aft.
>
> I'm sorry to have to disappoint you but, although OpenOffice is available for
> a range of operating systems, it is not available for Typewriter, which you
> appear to use. It's only when using a typewriter that you space paragraphs by
> "lines", of course: in a word processor you are not restricted to lines and
> so set paragraph spacing simply by distance.

cute remarks (including 'archaic need' below). gotta get the word out
to OpenOffice too since the dialogue, 'Indents & Spacing', refers
to 'line spacing' - perhaps it is a typewriter!

thank you for the substance of your remarks, but I'm not sure they
help. I think I haven't described my problem adequately.

I can make a 'style' which indents a paragraph say .03" left and right
and say .08" above and below.

I call this 'text-indent' and when the authors in the volume have
extended quotations, I can format them with a click on the style.

but in some cases the quotations themselves comprise two paragraphs. I
don't want the two paragraphs separated from each other by .08". I was
asking is there a way of making a style which separates two paragraphs
from the surrounding text but not from each other. I suspect not.

ok if not; I'll have to do it by hand.

>> suppose I want a style that will keep two paragraphs together, separated by
>> one line but separated from the rest by two spaces before and after the
>> couplet. is that doable?
>
> o It's a bit messy (though it satisfies your archaic need to think in lines),
> but you could separate the two blocks of text by two successive line breaks
> (Shift+Enter) instead of a paragraph break. You could still adjust the
> vertical spacing by changing the font size in the intervening empty line. The
> two blocks would then actually constitute a single paragraph, of course.

I know I can do the work by hand. but I wanted to encapsulate it in a
style.

> o Alternatively, you could apply local paragraph formatting to the pair of
> paragraphs (or probably just one of them), to override the paragraph style
> formatting.
>
> o Here's an idea. Put your pair of paragraphs into a single table cell (one
> column, one row). (You won't want a table border.) Apply a different
> paragraph style (perhaps Table Contents?) to your pair of paragraphs, with
> smaller spacing (one "line"). Then also set spacing after the table to make
> up the necessary difference between the pair of paragraphs and the following
> material (the other of your two "lines").

in the present text there are only a couple of instances where I want
do this kind of indentation but the table solution would be unwieldly
even then, and prohibitive in papers with more instances.

> I trust this helps.

thank you for the ideas!

f.

--
Felmon Davis

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Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof.
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019, Felmon Davis wrote:

> ...
> I can make a 'style' which indents a paragraph say .03" left and right and
> say .08" above and below.
>
> I call this 'text-indent' and when the authors in the volume have extended
> quotations, I can format them with a click on the style.
>
> but in some cases the quotations themselves comprise two paragraphs. I don't
> want the two paragraphs separated from each other by .08". I was asking is
> there a way of making a style which separates two paragraphs from the
> surrounding text but not from each other. I suspect not.
> ...

I also suspect not. My approach for a somewhat similar situation is to
define two styles (say 'text-indent-first' and
'text-indent-subsequent') and in the style-definition dialogue set the
'Next style' to the second style for both of them.

- Robert


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Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

Andrew Pitonyak
In reply to this post by Felmon Davis

I think your new description is very good... I missed the point the first time. 

This is how I solve a similar problem using styles. My interest is source code, but, very generically, assume you define three different styles names named something like: 

first_quote_par
next_quote_par
last_quote_par

Use properties similar to the following: 
For first_quote_par and next_quote_par: set the "next style" to be "next_quote_par". 
For last_quote_par, set the next style to be whatever you normally use for your text.
Set any specific line spacing for before and after as you desire for the different paragraphs in the style. It sounds like you might want to add something like "keep with next paragraph", or something, but, I usually only use that for things such as captions where I really need to keep the caption with a figure, table, or code listing. 

For my uses, I don't need the "first_quote_par". Also, the last_quote_par has suitable values in case I have a single line of code. If this is not true in your case,  you might also need to define "single_quote_par" for when you have only a single paragraph for your quote. 

Note that I do something similar for page styles. I have a style named "first_page_in_chapter" and "next_page_in_chapter". 



On Tuesday, September 03, 2019 13:14 EDT, Felmon Davis <[hidden email]> wrote:
 On Tue, 3 Sep 2019, Brian Barker wrote:

> At 17:54 02/09/2019 -0400, Felmon Davis wrote:
>> it's easy to set up a style to indent a paragraph with two line spaces
>> separating it from the rest of the text fore and aft.
>
> I'm sorry to have to disappoint you but, although OpenOffice is available for
> a range of operating systems, it is not available for Typewriter, which you
> appear to use. It's only when using a typewriter that you space paragraphs by
> "lines", of course: in a word processor you are not restricted to lines and
> so set paragraph spacing simply by distance.

cute remarks (including 'archaic need' below). gotta get the word out
to OpenOffice too since the dialogue, 'Indents & Spacing', refers
to 'line spacing' - perhaps it is a typewriter!

thank you for the substance of your remarks, but I'm not sure they
help. I think I haven't described my problem adequately.

I can make a 'style' which indents a paragraph say .03" left and right
and say .08" above and below.

I call this 'text-indent' and when the authors in the volume have
extended quotations, I can format them with a click on the style.

but in some cases the quotations themselves comprise two paragraphs. I
don't want the two paragraphs separated from each other by .08". I was
asking is there a way of making a style which separates two paragraphs
from the surrounding text but not from each other. I suspect not.

ok if not; I'll have to do it by hand.

>> suppose I want a style that will keep two paragraphs together, separated by
>> one line but separated from the rest by two spaces before and after the
>> couplet. is that doable?
>
> o It's a bit messy (though it satisfies your archaic need to think in lines),
> but you could separate the two blocks of text by two successive line breaks
> (Shift+Enter) instead of a paragraph break. You could still adjust the
> vertical spacing by changing the font size in the intervening empty line. The
> two blocks would then actually constitute a single paragraph, of course.

I know I can do the work by hand. but I wanted to encapsulate it in a
style.

> o Alternatively, you could apply local paragraph formatting to the pair of
> paragraphs (or probably just one of them), to override the paragraph style
> formatting.
>
> o Here's an idea. Put your pair of paragraphs into a single table cell (one
> column, one row). (You won't want a table border.) Apply a different
> paragraph style (perhaps Table Contents?) to your pair of paragraphs, with
> smaller spacing (one "line"). Then also set spacing after the table to make
> up the necessary difference between the pair of paragraphs and the following
> material (the other of your two "lines").

in the present text there are only a couple of instances where I want
do this kind of indentation but the table solution would be unwieldly
even then, and prohibitive in papers with more instances.

> I trust this helps.

thank you for the ideas!

f.

--
Felmon Davis

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Captions [was Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.]

W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof.
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019, Andrew Pitonyak wrote:

> ... ... It sounds like you might want to add something like "keep
> with next paragraph", or something, but, I usually only use that for
> things such as captions where I really need to keep the caption with
> a figure, table, or code listing. 

Andrew, I'm curious about why you don't use the Insert > Caption
feature for figures and tables.

- Robert

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Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

Beregond
In reply to this post by Felmon Davis
Den 2019-09-03 kl. 19:14, skrev Felmon Davis:

> I can make a 'style' which indents a paragraph say .03" left and right
> and say .08" above and below.
>
> I call this 'text-indent' and when the authors in the volume have
> extended quotations, I can format them with a click on the style.
>
> but in some cases the quotations themselves comprise two paragraphs. I
> don't want the two paragraphs separated from each other by .08". I was
> asking is there a way of making a style which separates two paragraphs
> from the surrounding text but not from each other. I suspect not.

    I have the same situation. What I have done is to define four
styles: 1) 'block quote' which has spacing above and below, 2) 'block
quote start' which has spacing above but not below, 3) 'block quote end'
which has spacing below but not above, and 4) 'block quote middle' with
spacing neither above nor below.
   Then I can use 'block quote' for single-paragraph quotations, combine
'block quote start' and 'block quote end' for two-paragraph quotations,
and combine 'block quote start', 'block quote middle' and 'block quote
end' for quotations with more paragraphs than two.

         Hope this helps,

                Anders Stenström


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Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

Felmon Davis
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019, Beregond, Anders Stenström wrote:

> Den 2019-09-03 kl. 19:14, skrev Felmon Davis:
>
>> I can make a 'style' which indents a paragraph say .03" left and right and
>> say .08" above and below.
>>
>> I call this 'text-indent' and when the authors in the volume have extended
>> quotations, I can format them with a click on the style.
>>
>> but in some cases the quotations themselves comprise two paragraphs. I
>> don't want the two paragraphs separated from each other by .08". I was
>> asking is there a way of making a style which separates two paragraphs from
>> the surrounding text but not from each other. I suspect not.
>
>   I have the same situation. What I have done is to define four
> styles: 1) 'block quote' which has spacing above and below, 2) 'block
> quote start' which has spacing above but not below, 3) 'block quote end'
> which has spacing below but not above, and 4) 'block quote middle' with
> spacing neither above nor below.
>  Then I can use 'block quote' for single-paragraph quotations, combine
> 'block quote start' and 'block quote end' for two-paragraph quotations,
> and combine 'block quote start', 'block quote middle' and 'block quote
> end' for quotations with more paragraphs than two.
I want to thank everyone for the very good advice. I think I see a
theme: a kind of linking of styles.

this hadn't occurred to me as I was caught in the model of 'select
whole text (= both paragraphs) and click on style'.

the style linking requires more clickery than that - one invokes two
or more different styles - but it still saves a lot of effort and
error.

haven't tried anything yet so don't know what I favor; back to work
later this evening.

very useful!

f.

--
Felmon Davis


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Re: Captions [was Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.]

Andrew Pitonyak
In reply to this post by W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof.

I define my own variables for counting things such as figures. When you insert a caption, this creates a frame that contains both the figure and the caption. Especially if you have floating figures, this seems like a good idea. First, there are a few times when things go poorly if you let things float around; for example, importing into other things or exporting as HTML (to name two). Worse, many years ago, there was a bug that caused OOo to completely fail to load a document with exactly this configuration if another set of things lined up perfectly. I had a very large document that just would not load becaues of it. I ended up editing the XML version of the document until I found the spot that caused the problem. The bug was fixed, of course, but I have not used that method since then. Well, not for most of my documents.

I always embed my images as a character and let them flow with the text. By always, I really mean almost always. This allows me to do things such as have three images on a single line with a single caption. Sure, I can do it the other way, but, the I need to embed the other two images into the frame (and similar). 

I have my own paragraph style for things such as figures, tables, and code listings. Last I checked this is exactly how the documentation project does it. I did it because that is how the documentation for OOo was done. 



On Tuesday, September 03, 2019 13:50 EDT, "W. Robert J. Funnell, Prof." <[hidden email]> wrote:
 On Tue, 3 Sep 2019, Andrew Pitonyak wrote:

> ... ... It sounds like you might want to add something like "keep
> with next paragraph", or something, but, I usually only use that for
> things such as captions where I really need to keep the caption with
> a figure, table, or code listing. 

Andrew, I'm curious about why you don't use the Insert > Caption
feature for figures and tables.

- Robert


 
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Re: spacing before/after group of paragraphs.

Felmon Davis
In reply to this post by Beregond
On Tue, 3 Sep 2019, Beregond, Anders Stenström wrote:

> Den 2019-09-03 kl. 19:14, skrev Felmon Davis:
>
>> I can make a 'style' which indents a paragraph say .03" left and right and
>> say .08" above and below.
>>
>> I call this 'text-indent' and when the authors in the volume have extended
>> quotations, I can format them with a click on the style.
>>
>> but in some cases the quotations themselves comprise two paragraphs. I
>> don't want the two paragraphs separated from each other by .08". I was
>> asking is there a way of making a style which separates two paragraphs from
>> the surrounding text but not from each other. I suspect not.
>
>   I have the same situation. What I have done is to define four
> styles: 1) 'block quote' which has spacing above and below, 2) 'block
> quote start' which has spacing above but not below, 3) 'block quote end'
> which has spacing below but not above, and 4) 'block quote middle' with
> spacing neither above nor below.
>  Then I can use 'block quote' for single-paragraph quotations, combine
> 'block quote start' and 'block quote end' for two-paragraph quotations,
> and combine 'block quote start', 'block quote middle' and 'block quote
> end' for quotations with more paragraphs than two.
>
>        Hope this helps,
>
>               Anders Stenström
I haven't compared your solution to the others though I believe the
strategies are similar for the most part.

I have tried yours and it seems to work well. some authors compose
simple arguments, two premises and a conclusion, and this technique
works well with more than two 'paragraphs', in this case, two premises
and a conclusion - everything neatly tucked together but as a
unit separate from the surrounding text.

f.

--
Felmon Davis


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